Predestination or free wiil.

Is more like God predestinate us because he already knows who is going to be safe and who is not, free will for us because we do not know the future, we don't know if we are going to choose God or not, so when we choose to follow God and Jesus and fight the good fight until the very end, then we were called and chosen, those that are called but not chosen are those who do not fight the good fight until the very end. But again i myself do not think i grasp all of this true completely i see it as one of the mysteries that will be left unknown until God reveals it.

Sorry if there was any misunderstanding in what i say on my previous post.

The Master has gone for a time but He has left each of His servants with gold, that is faith that is like gold.

When He returns, will you have increase, or will you have buried thatprecious gift in the dirt only to make it filthy...…...you say you have faith, avail yourself to the Master while there is yet time before it is too late.

if I can sense anything, "fight the good fight until the very end" can lead people to believe they are "working for salvation" which is not true

I had a post somewhere, and I will copy and paste it here ...

keep in mind that "keeping your guard up" does not save you, "keeping your guard up" is meant to preserve the purity of one's heart (with God's help of course)

salvation is sustained by God
you play a role in the quality of your relationship with God

^let's see if we can put the two together

Why are so many who claim to understand and believe become hysterical when doing the works of God are mentioned.

No man will be justified by the lord IF HE TUrns away from doing the works given him....

I believe some may turn away for a time but when they reaize they have been errant they return in the joy of faith and living by the Holy Spirit.

By fighting the good fight i mean the command of denied yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus, no don't think that we are save by works, as i mentioned in a previous discussion this is explained clearly in Ephesians 2:8-9
"8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; 9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]."

But we do need to fight every day against sin, evil and temptation, that is what i mean by fighting the good fight.

Yes we are saved by grae and mercy only.

This is by no means an excuse to not obey God, and to not do the works given us by Him

The lion's portion for all is fighting the "good fight."

If people keep using the excuse that we are saved by mercy and grace not to do work
worty of the recompense reward to come, I am afraid all who follo them are burying
their talent or talents of gold in the filth.

never teach we are not to obey or not to do good works…….it is contrary to the teacvhing of not only Jesus Christ but also Paul...…….Paul teaches Jesus Christ...…...what people do with the meaning of what he teaches is on their heads, not on that of Paul.

Great topic! Here's my thoughts:

We do obey God, but we don't obey Him to be saved. We obey Him because we ARE saved. There's a fine difference here, but it's a big one. If we try to do works to be saved, we fall from grace. There is no security in our relationship and no loved received. This is a problem when it comes time to loving one another as He loved us.

Romans 8:14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

We are children of God now. Not waiting to become one. Because of this we are lead by the Spirit.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

wE ARE FREED PF TJE CIRSE PF TJE ÑAW. DEATJ- tJE ÑAW UET EXOSTS BIT WE ARE MP ÑPMGER O,ÌTED TJE guilt of our trespasses (sin.) We are instructed to do the works of God. The works of God are not so unusual as one may believe. Simply waiting on the Lord is works, prayer too, so do not think for a moment we feeble creaqtures are all expected to do what the Apostles did, but we are instructed to be like Jesus.

Do not bury your faith to become filthy……...wait on the Lord every day, and He will work through you.

I am very sorry for that error. Now it will not delete…….the paste says enough.

I think this very question fails to understand the all knowing-ness of God. He knows the end from the beginning. He knew every thing you would ever do from his first plan to create the heavens and the earth. So your free will falls well within his foreknowing of you. This may seem a contradiction but it's not it just hard to comprehend that God can release you freely into the world knowing full well what you are going to do.

What is most difficult to understand is how anyone is able to confuse our being foreknown from this age when we come to God and He saves us by the Blood of the Lamb.

What is even more difficult to understand is how anyone coud think of a lving heavenly Father Who would subject His children to this age and all the pain and suffering it contains knowing full well in advance just what they would do and how they would react to Jesuchrist.

This latter describes Satan and not our Father Who loves us and is allowing us to choose to come home to Him.

i do not know how my beliefs resemble Calvin's, because I have never referenced his writings, or any other man's commentary. I believe that the scriptures prove themselves and are my only source of studies. "For by grace THROUGH CHRIST'S FAITH" Calvin, I understand, made his presence known by coming out of the reformation period from the Roman Catholic Church, and the church that Jesus set up was never a part of the Roman church and survived there persecution. The church is not just another denomination that came out of the reformation.

“For by Grace through Christ’s Faith”


I can not find this in scripture. I see For By grace through faith not of works. The works and grace represent the one who was saved, Not Christ.

Jesus said we receive eternal life based on HIS FAITH, Paul said You was saved by grace THROUGH CHRIST'S faith. Like I said in my previous post, Salvation- Greek meaning is "a deliverance" and there is a deliverance we receive here in time by our faith in Jesus, in the fact that we believe that we are justified by his faithfulness to go to the cross. Many of God's children are confused because they do not understand to separate the timely deliverance from the eternal deliverance. Such as, "you are saved by grace and that not of yourselves" and "save yourself from this untoward generation". These two statements do not contradict each other, one means eternal deliverance and the other one means a timely deliverance. All scriptures prove themselves. If you are understanding that your faith is responsible for your eternal salvation, then it would be "eternal salvation by works".

To say you only learn from the Scriptures yet you talk of many things sourced from men apart from the Scriptures.

I have always considered I only leaqrn truth from the Scriptures but I do apply knowledge of language when I study. This is important to me because I derive great blessing from it...

I blieve you contradict your own claims in the same post...….iPerhaps I am wrong, but you do make reference to various outside sources without naming them.

Yes, but if you will compare that scripture with Gal 2:16 you will find that the "THROUGH FAITH" in Eph is not "YOUR FAITH" but "CHRIST'S FAITH", unless you are using a version of the bible that has changed the little word "OF" to "IN' in Gal 2:16. Making it man's faith instead of Christ's faith. All scriptures prove themselves. That is the reason in Ephesians it says "and that not of yourselves".

On the rare occasion when I have been given gifts of the Holy Spirit as for a witness to people I have shared the Gospel with, I have never executed any by any power I have, it has always been God working though me because I was available. In this sense you are absolutely correct, but we are given to yield to God………….we must do and not simply give lip service to our King.

Jesus never said this nor did paul. Your adding to Gods word. You can not sit there and expect people to give credence to what you say when your takingn Gods word and adding to it.

Salvation - The word means to saved, to keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger and destruction.

When Paul says we have been saved (the greek word is in the perfect tense, it is a completed action) he is talking about us being rescued from the wrath to come, from hellfire. From eternal damnation, From as he said in Collossians, from the things which were contrary to us, Against us and he took them and nailed them to the cross (the law) Paul tells us God saved us from the curse of the law, which is eternal death.

Non of the other things have any bearing on what Paul said, I can be rescued from a burning building and have my life saved, But I have not been resued from the pebalty of my sins then I am still lost. And at best, still have hope to be saved.

I HAVE BEEN saved BY GRACE through FAITH (my faith in God, Not Gods faith in me) and not by my works. (Thats why this faith can not be Gods faith, because it is apposed to works. Which was not Gods works. Context does not allow this to be Gods faith.

If you take context in Gal 2. He did not say christs faith. If you want to think it does. Thats on you
The context of Gal 2 as well as Eph is Mans faith vs Mans works. We are saved by our faith in God. In both passages.

Again, Your KJV interpretation is seriously flawed.

Ps. Did you ever anwer my question? ABout how I can boast in my complete faith in Gods work?

Your version of the drowning in the ocean, according to your interpretation of the scriptures, is this: God sees you drowning and throws you an inner tube attached to a rope (offers you salvation, if you will ACCEPT it) and tells you to grab hold (accept) of the inner tube and he will save you. This would be salvation by works, depending upon your acceptance. If this is not your view of eternal deliverance, I welcome your comments. About being "DEAD in sins", I just quoted you the scripture, how you interpret is your misunderstanding. Eph 2:5 - EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN SINS, hath he quickened us together with Christ, (by grace are you saved).