Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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#74,461
TruthTalk said:
Christians are "Sealed by the Holy Spirit" unto the day of redemption. You are attempting to use your good works to enter heaven, good luck with that. Your relationship to the Savior is intellectual only, good luck with that too. Mixing works and Grace is a counterfeit gospel and will not save a flea, repent and turn to God and you will be saved.

You need to come to God on His terms; your pride and works is going the way of Cain, an unacceptable offering.
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Mixing works with grace is what God says to do.
He gives the grace for us to do the good works.
That is not a counterfeit gospel.
And how do YOU know who is saved and who is not?
Did God go on vacation and leave YOU in charge??
Only God knows who is saved.

Galatians 6:7-10
7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.
10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

We are not to be deceived...we are to do good
and IN TIME we will reap what we sow IF we do not grow weary.

Those that believe they are somehow "sealed" in the Holy Spirit are sadly mistaken since this expression is not even understood in our day.

AND, we are only sealed for as long as we WANT TO BE.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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BillG said:
And we know what happens with wood, hay and stubble.
It gets burned up yet we are saved through the fire.

Why is that (I know you know why just trying to make the point)?

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We have been SAVED through faith and it's a gift (a gift freely given and not earned, otherwise it's not a gift)

We are his workmanship, he is not our workmanship.
We can't work to persuade him to save us.
It's his workmanship in us through Jesus and in Jesus that we walk in the good works prepared for us even before we were born, both physically and spiritually.

But I would like to ask everyone on here.

WHAT ARE THESE GOOD WORKS?
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Bill,
1 Corinthians 3:10-14 has NOTHING to do with our sins or our being saved or not.

IF it did, then catholics would be right and purgatory would exist.
Read it again...we've been through this already.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
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benhur said:
Does your cousin believe in OSAS. One of the by-products of OSAS is that Jesus has finished your salvation, and therefore you do not have to do anything but trust in him. That literally means that you no longer have to go to church, you no longer have to help your church with money donations, you do not have to fast, or pray, or do any good works (in fact good works is a nasty word), if you sin, Jesus will automatically forgive you without any effort on your part, etc., etc., etc. Is this where your cousin is? Because lots of Christians are in this position, just waiting until the second coming, to be taken up by their Lord into EL.
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Are you from Eula, Texas?
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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GodsGrace101 said:
Bill,
1 Corinthians 3:10-14 has NOTHING to do with our sins or our being saved or not.

IF it did, then catholics would be right and purgatory would exist.
Read it again...we've been through this already.
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GodsGrace101, hello.

Where did I say it had anything to do with our sins?
It doesn't have to do anything to do with our sins.
Although one has to ask the question.
If something needs to be burnt up because it's rubbish then are those works sinful?

I think it does have something to do with salvation as per V15 which you seem to have stopped short off in your response above.

1 Corinthians 3:15
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Sorry but with regards to Catholics and purgatory I have no idea what you are trying to convey here.

Please expand/explain your thoughts for me.

Ta

Bill
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
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Sep 14, 2018
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#74,468
BillG said:
GodsGrace101, hello.

Where did I say it had anything to do with our sins?
It doesn't have to do anything to do with our sins.
Although one has to ask the question.
If something needs to be burnt up because it's rubbish then are those works sinful?

I think it does have something to do with salvation as per V15 which you seem to have stopped short off in your response above.

1 Corinthians 3:15
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Sorry but with regards to Catholics and purgatory I have no idea what you are trying to convey here.

Please expand/explain your thoughts for me.

Ta

Bill
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Have to leave in a minute but I'LL BE BACK!!

1. WHO'S works are being spoken of in 1 Corinthians ??
2. Catholics believe that 1 Corinthians 3 is speaking about JUST MAKING IT and not going to hell, so they have to spend time in purgatory. If you read it with that in mind, you'll see what I mean.

BTW, Did you help wash those dirty dishes??
LATA...!
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
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Oct 11, 2017
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VCO said:
Your HOME MADE THEOLOGY, IS FULLY FLAWED, BECAUSE YOU DID LEARN. You are supposed to be discipled by one who has already learned. So now you get a one way ticket to my Permanent Ignore List. BYE, so if everyone does the same, you have fun talking to yourself.
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Well I would say the Christ has already learned, and His Disciples, and His Prophets of old. Surely a repentant man can learn from them. But like He said, if you don't believe in their Word's, you won't be convinced, even if One rose from the dead.

Yes, it is true religious man tried to place the Word of God on permanent ignore, but Praise the Lord, the Word of God rose again and is alive and well.
 
B

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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BaptistBibleBeliever said:
A new tact to use with these cultists that insist we much perform the works that God has 'ordained' us to is to link their verse 10 to verse 8.

Why are they calling God a liar?

I mean, seriously! How can we in one second be given a free gift (verse 8) and then in the next second being asked to pay for it (verse 10)?
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Verse 8 in the KJV does not say "free" gift.

Verse 9, Paul is talking about the dead works of the Law of Moses. Paul is not talking about the works of the Law of Christ. (see Galatians 6:2)

Verse 10, says that we SHOULD walk in them, it does not say WE WILL WALK IN THEM. The word SHOULD, means we have a choice. God has prepared good works for us that we have before been ordained to, that we SHOULD walk in them. If we do make the right choice, we will have EL. If we make the wrong choice we will have eternal punishment (see Matthew 25:46).

So how do we reconcile by grace are we saved, not of works, lest we boast. We are literally saved by the grace of Jesus Christ. Even if we perform all the works that Jesus has before ordained us that we should walk in, it still is not enough to save us in the KOG. If requires the grace of Jesus Christ to cleans us from sin that allow us to finally walk into heaven. Here is the reconciliation:
If we confess that we believe in Christ and confess that we have faith in Christ, and we confess that we trust in Christ, and we are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit, and now with a new birth and a new person, we are willing to live the Law of Christ (Galations 6:2), and be engaged in the work of the Lord has called us to (not the dead works of the Law of Moses), and endure to the end, Jesus will lift us up, and cleans us of the filth of this world through his grace, and we will be allowed into the KOG and be with him forever.
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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GodsGrace101 said:
Have to leave in a minute but I'LL BE BACK!!

1. WHO'S works are being spoken of in 1 Corinthians ??
2. Catholics believe that 1 Corinthians 3 is speaking about JUST MAKING IT and not going to hell, so they have to spend time in purgatory. If you read it with that in mind, you'll see what I mean.

BTW, Did you help wash those dirty dishes??
LATA...!
Click to expand...
Never heard of Catholics thinking that.
What they do though is catorgarise sin into mortal & venial sin.
Mortal is very serious and venial not so.

I was talking to a member on here who is a Catholic.
The issue was adultery and the topic was lustful thoughts that a person was struggling with that led them to porn and therefore was he committing adultery.

I said yes I think you are guilty of it and quoted the verses where Jesus addressed this very issue.

The Catholic fellow went at me and told me I wrong because thinking about was not the same as doing it. Thinking was venial and action was normal.

He totally rejected the verses.
So for me to look at another woman with lust then I'm just as guilty in my heart as doing it.

Jesus came to reveal the true intent of the law.
He really raised the bar.
If it's in the heart you are just as guilty as doing it.
Doing it will surely bring it's consequences here on earth.
But at the end of the day Jesus will judge the heart.

Did I help wash those dirty dishes?
Off course I did.
Will when I say I did, I loaded the dishwasher, put in the dishwasher tablet, close the door and pressed start.

Does that count;)
 
N

NoNameMcgee

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#74,476
GodsGrace101 said:
@NoNameMcgee

Hey, what don't you agree with?
God gave us a mouth to talk.
I'll be waiting.
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i dont agree with your understandings.... much of what you said regarding the meaning of scriptures does not match up with the truth....

but in that post specifically how you tied the verses bill said to purgatory

i disagree with your perspective


and that passive aggressive snarky entitled head strong attitude isnt the best way to get what you ask for....
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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GodsGrace101 said:
Mixing works with grace is what God says to do.
He gives the grace for us to do the good works.
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I wouldn't say that mixing works with grace is what says to do.
Grace is free, unmerited.

g5485. χάρις charis; from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): — acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).
AV (156) - grace 130, favour 6, thanks 4, thank 4, thank + g2192 3, pleasure 2, misc 7;
gracethat which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
good will, loving-kindness, favourof the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in...

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
So I see your second sentence as being correct.

His grace empowers us to do good works, which should not be limited to good works but should also include asking Jesus to increase in us so that we decrease.
And by this I mean to include sin in our lives reducing and the fruit of the Holy Spirit increasing..

We must also bear in mind that any works we do must be done for the right reason.
Not because we have to but because we want to.
Done out of love. The people who Jesus commended in the sheep and goats.
Yet we find the sheep were surprised.
 
VCO

VCO

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GodsGrace101 said:
LOL
That's pretty funny!
I'm what Dcon would call a worker-for and what Jesus would call one who obeys Him and all He taught...

No easy believism and love only gospel down my road...
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If your Motive for Obeying Christ is to gain favor with GOD, or to complete your Salvation, IT IS OF NO VALUE TO GOD.

IF YOUR MOTIVE FOR OBEYING HIM, IS NOT PURE LOVE FOR HIM, AGAIN, IT IS OF NO VALUE TO GOD.

It your MOTIVE is like I described, it is nothing by wood, hay, and stubble; and filthy rags.
 
VCO

VCO

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benhur said:
The reason you do not answer is because it will expose you to the truth that you do not want to believe in.
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YOU ARE GUILTY OF THAT WHICH YOU DESCRIBED, because you will NOT ANSWER, What Church or Type of Church you attend, so that we can LOOK up their Doctrinal Statement of FAITH.

Your unwillingness is the reason NOBODY takes your responses serious, and creates a LOT OF SUSPICION of you doctrinal soundness.
 
B

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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VCO said:
I can tell by your ANSWERS and your Questions, that you do not understand the first thing about being Born Again.

You will not understand this, but I can tell by the lack of your spirit, not ministering to my spirit.

YOU SAID: One Christian does not question another Christian about such things.

None of us minds another Christian asking us about being Born Again. In fact I am HAPPY TO DISCUSS it with ANY OTHER TRUE CHRISTIAN. So your STATEMENT just verified that you KNOW NOTHING about being Born Again. It reeks with RED FLAGS.


2 Timothy 4:2-3 (HCSB)
2 Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (HCSB)
15 but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.
16 However, do this with gentleness and respect, keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are accused, those who denounce your Christian life will be put to shame.

Acts 9:27-29 (NKJV)
27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out.
29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him.

Acts 18:26 (NKJV)
26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Acts 19:8 (HCSB)
8 Then he entered the synagogue and spoke boldly over a period of three months, engaging in discussion and trying to persuade them about the things of the kingdom of God.

Matthew 7:16 (HCSB)
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

1 Timothy 1:3-6 (HCSB)
3 As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach different doctrine
4 or to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies. These promote empty speculations rather than God’s plan, which operates by faith.
5 Now the goal of our instruction is love ⌊that comes⌋ from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
6 Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (HCSB)
3 If anyone teaches other doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness,
4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.

2 Timothy 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works.
15 You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (NKJV)
18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck,
20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
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Christians do like to share their stories of how they were saved, but one Christian does not go to another Christian and tell them, "I do not think you have had the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you might think you have, but you haven't, and you don't have the slightest hint about what being born again is". We don't treat other Christians that way.

Are you so sure that you know what you are talking about? You seem to feel pretty good about yourself. You even told another Christian this: You are supposed to be discipled by one who has already learned. (see post #74,456).

So you think you are learned do you? For knowing Jesus intimately and for receiving revelation so easily and often, you have made 2 big mistakes about 2 of your fellow Christians on this forum. How is that? If you can really tell with your superior mind and logic and revelation what churches we belong to, it is interesting that you have flunked both times.

Just because we do not believe like you believe, it does not make our beliefs false. Except, I am sure you are one of those Christians that believe that you are right and 99% of all other Christians are wrong.

I can tell from how you approach people on this forum that do not saddle up with you immediately, you do not know the Lord as intimately as you think you do. If you were truly the learned disciple that all should come to for knowledge of the Lord, you would be different from your rather pious and downlooking attitude.
 
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