Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

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Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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That is your problem, they aren't genuine believers. They haven't placed their faith in Jesus fully. They still think the old covenant can save them

They have faith in the old covenant not the new.
I would disagree here. I believe the Hebrews in the book of Hebrews are true believers. But their problem is not a loss of salvation. It is a loss of not going on to what God has more for you.

Quantrill
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Keep swinging for those new, those on the fence and those who will eventually show up and read....
Yes I do have to keep that in mind.

I am going to keep this in mind too....

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Isaiah 40:31
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
Funny he says "I CLING".......last time I checked it is Christ and the Father that CLINGS to US because we are in THEIR HANDS............
It is sad that these peoples say they have faith in Jesus, trust Him for eternal life, do not believe in works for salvation. but then add that they must keep trusting, keep the faith, without understanding that those two statements contradict each other.
It must be one or the other. It cannot be both.
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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So then salvation/justified is sanctification?
True biblical salvation is Colossians 1: 27. Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is to be fully sanctified and perfected at the resurrection.

We partake of that salvation in this life by faith in Christ as He works in our life but it is not complete until the resurrection.

So, in one sense, salvation is complete sanctification. It is being saved completely from your sins and perfected by Christ Himself when he raises you at the resurrection with your incorruptible and sinless body.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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No, I did not say that if someone "sins willfully they are lost forever". Where did I say they were lost forever?

I said if they turn away from Christ BY LOSING THEIR FAITH IN HIM they will perish. That is exactly what the Scripture says in Hebrews 10.

Scripture confirms in Hebrews 10: 29 that they were already sanctified before they turned away. That means they were real believers. To say otherwise is to deny what the Scripture says there.
Where does it say they will perish? Yes, they are real believers. I agree.

If by perish you don't mean lost forever...what do you mean?

Quantrill
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
Clinging to the cross is not a work. It is trusting Jesus by faith. My faith is based entirely on Him. I think we are talking past each other.
Your faith is not entirely on Him when you state that I CLING.
You have moved your eternal salvation out of the hands of Jesus placed it in your hands.
You may not understand that, but that is what you are doing.
You need to understand that there is nothing, let me repeat, nothing you can do to keep yourself saved.
"ALL YOUR WORKS ARE FILTHY RAGS", and your clinging is filthy works.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Now I know why Ralph~ went off about "Calvinism" in this thread when it was never mentioned. Old Ralph~ used to go after it in the past with me and remembered this, which is why he went off about it again.

lolzzz...

And he's beating the same old tired drum of losing salvation and having to keep on trying real hard to make sure he believes every nano second of the day. If these false teachers would only learn to discern descriptive texts, then they'd chill out and really believe the Gospel.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Now I know why Ralph~ went off about "Calvinism" in this thread when it was never mentioned. Old Ralph~ used to go after it in the past with me and remembered this, which is why he went off about it again.

lolzzz...

And he's beating the same old tired drum of losing salvation and having to keep on trying real hard to make sure he believes every nano second of the day. If these false teachers would only learn to discern descriptive texts, then they'd chill out and really believe the Gospel.
Good luck with that last part.....most will ride their self saving dogma right to the plenteous in number group......
 
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Ariel82

Guest
It is still real faith. The writer of Hebrews is warning them not to go back to the Mosaic Law. Can't go back if you haven't come to Christ. There faith is weak but genuine nevertheless. That faith can die and that person can perish if they don't grow up to maturity in their faith.
Demons believed that Jesus was the Holy one of God. Would you call that "faith"?

Their "faith" was on the same level of demons, not grounded and rooted in Christ and the true Gospel, not a saving faith.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Yes, He is doing that because you are displaying your faith everytime you come to Him in prayer. Your faith is always required. He does the rest. He is always faithful.

I will list some of the Scriptures that say if you don't continue in faith you will not be saved below:

Colossians 1: 23, 1 Corinthians 15: 2, Matthew 24: 13, Galatians 3: 3&4, Galatians 5: 2, Hebrews 3: 6&14, Hebrews 6: 4-6,
Hebrews 10: 38-39, Rev 2: 26, Rev 3: 5, Rev 3: 12, Rev 3: 21, Rev 21: 7, Mark 13: 13

These are just some of them. 1 John 5: 4-5 tells us we overcome by hanging on to our faith. A person must hang on to their trust in Christ.

Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling.
It's not us holding on to God but God holding onto us that saves.


Isaiah 41:13
ESV /

For I, the Lord your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, “Fear not, I am the one who helps you.”
John 10:29 ESV /
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 10:28 ESV /
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Psalm 139:10 ESV /
Even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Colossians 1

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

*****

If you don't continue you don't lose your salvation you get chastened by your Heavenly Father.

How many earthly father tosses a kid out of the house for making a single mistake?

Why then I God made to be meaner than earthly fathers?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.



*"""""

Paul says it's NOT HIM WHO LABORS OR WORKS BUT THE GRACE OF GOD WITHIN HIM

IF GOD BEGINS A GOOD WORK WITHIN YOU THEN HE WILL FINISH IT. ITS NOT IN VAIN.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
It's bedtime. Will look at rest if God gives me time.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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Ephesians 2:8



Anti-ES proponents conflate those who's behaviors prove they're not Christian regardless of their claim, with Christians whom the scripture identifies as being such because they had nothing to do with making that so in the first place. God knows them, God calls them, and no one comes to Christ unless that happens. And God's gifts and calling are irrevocable.Romans 11:29. Because those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. Those who do never were saved and never knew God.

Anti-ES proponents point is one that implies human will is the foundation point for salvation. And that's how we can lose it and that then tells them ES isn't true.
What they don't get is, the only part we played in our salvation is heeding the call it was intended for us, this eternal irrevocable calling and gift of God. Those who sin like the devil when claiming Christ aren't that. They evidence they can lose their salvation to the anti-ES crowd, who uses that as proof ES is false, because they were never saved in the first place.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
But it Hebrews 10: 26-39 says a true believer does do it. Verse 29 says he was sanctified. That means to be set apart and belong to God. They had real faith. But Hebrews 10: 26 says that they go back to a lifestyle of sin and embrace the world again. That passage makes it clear that they will perish.

Saying they were not "true believers" is inaccurate. They were true believers. The Scripture there says they were. They were sanctified.
So hebrews and john disagree and contradict each other.
If this is the case, burn your bible. It is useless.


Heb 10 is about returning to law. If you say your believe in chris,t and that is your trust, then sin willfully by returning to law. There is no more sacrifice for sin.

A person who has true faith would never return to law. That is the point.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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^ ...and speaking of "the law," there's this:

Romans 7:1-4 -

7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by [means of] the body of Christ; that ye should be married [joined] to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Now let me explain, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, why I think that “Once Saved Always Saved” is a lie.



Let me start with John 3: 16. Perhaps the most famous verse in the Bible. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”



We also have John 5: 24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”



And John 6: 47 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”



So what do these 3 verses have in common? The Greek word for faith/believe is Pistis. It is in the present tense in the Greek in all of these verses. The present tense in Greek denotes a “kind of action” that is continuous. It means a CONTINUAL coming to Christ in faith.
Here we have it.
Salvation by works. By polluting the word "faith" with your false definition you hope to prove your point.

I will let the scriptures you quoted be your accuser.
"... whoever believes in Him..." - John 3:16
"... believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life..." - John 5: 24
"... he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” - John 6: 47

Eternal life as a present possession. Saved in the here and now.
This refutes your salvation by works claims.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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It is the doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” or “Eternal Security”. This doctrine teaches that once a person believes in Jesus, even if it is just for one moment in time, that person is saved forever. THIS IS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY CONTINUE BELIEVING OR ARE REPENTANT.
Someone has obviously misrepresented the eternal security of the believer to you.

Every person must repent (turn away from their sins and idols) and every person must genuinely believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and receive Him as Lord and Savior. Therefore everyone must be born again in order to enter and see the Kingdom of God. And this only happens when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life.

The eternal security of the believer is grounded in (1) the grace of God, (2) the finished work of Christ and (3) the regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
*snoring loudly* zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
we were dead in trespasses and sin

coming to an end of yourself

accepting and welcoming grace into your life

that's the gospel

may God continue to be sovereign as he guides with the Holy Spirit
hindsight is 20/20