Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

which one do you think supports that in particular?

John 3:16?

To those who oppose calvinism i would like to ask: WHAT evidence would have to be presented to you, for you to change your mind?

For me it would be verses that mention some poeple that Jesus didnt die for, or verses that say all things including SIN is predestinated.

For God so loved the world (what world?) that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present tense) not will belief (future tense) in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The world is the "world of believers" not the whole world. Who is going to believe? Answer: those who are regenerated (his elect) that he choose before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and gave to Jesus to die for their sins and secure their destination in heaven. (John 6:37-39).

For God so loved the world (what world?) that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present tense) not will belief (future tense) in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The world is the "world of believers" not the whole world. Who is going to believe? Answer: those who are regenerated (his elect) that he choose before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and gave to Jesus to die for their sins and secure their destination in heaven. (John 6:37-39).

Here we see calvinism ADDING to the scriptures again.

John 3:16 the geneva calvie corrupted translation:

For God so loved the world [of believers] that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Timothy 2:4 the geneva calvie corrupted translation:
Who will have all [elect] men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 John 2:2 the geneva calvie corrupted translation:
And he is the propitiation for our sins [the elect]: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world[of believers/elect].

Its unbelivable how many texts you gotta twist and turn to be a calvinist.

Here are those verses UNCORRUPTED with nothing added from the pure KJV BIBLE:

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And one more:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Gospel to every creature huh? The Good news that Jesus died for them, and command them to repent and believe? The good news that Jesus paid the price? The good news that Jesus is coming to setup His kingdom here on earth one of these days? The good news that Jesus is going to catch us into the clouds in glorified resurrection bodies with no more sickness, no more pain, no more tears, no more infections, no more dentists, GLORY TO GOD!

Or.... womp womp womp: Preach the bad news that most likely you are not elect and God has nothing for you, tough luck. But hey, lets preach anyway because we are totally making a difference.

Here is a pro-tip for the people who arent familiar with calvinism yet, one way to spot one a mile away is that they WILL NOT tell someone Jesus died for them. EVER. They use words like "Jesus died for His people, and if you put your faith in Jesus". Its kind of a way to say, Jesus died for you, but it has to be made impersonal because they cant know Jesus REALLY died for them, cause maybe that poor sob isnt elect.

It’s very easy to isolate the verses above to show he means everybody, all. But one has to look at many other verses to compare to those mentioned above like for instance 1Cor. 15:22 who is the “all” mentioned here. Likewise in Ezk. 34 does it mention all or only a select group of people.

1 Corinthians 15:22 is every single person who has ever lived! Wait...never mind!

LOL!

Here we see calvinism ADDING to the scriptures again.

John 3:16 the geneva calvie corrupted translation:

For God so loved the world [of believers] that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Timothy 2:4 the geneva calvie corrupted translation:
Who will have all [elect] men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 John 2:2 the geneva calvie corrupted translation:
And he is the propitiation for our sins [the elect]: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world[of believers/elect].

Its unbelivable how many texts you gotta twist and turn to be a calvinist.

Here are those verses UNCORRUPTED with nothing added from the pure KJV BIBLE:

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And one more:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Gospel to every creature huh? The Good news that Jesus died for them, and command them to repent and believe? The good news that Jesus paid the price? The good news that Jesus is coming to setup His kingdom here on earth one of these days? The good news that Jesus is going to catch us into the clouds in glorified resurrection bodies with no more sickness, no more pain, no more tears, no more infections, no more dentists, GLORY TO GOD!

Or.... womp womp womp: Preach the bad news that most likely you are not elect and God has nothing for you, tough luck. But hey, lets preach anyway because we are totally making a difference.

Here is a pro-tip for the people who arent familiar with calvinism yet, one way to spot one a mile away is that they WILL NOT tell someone Jesus died for them. EVER. They use words like "Jesus died for His people, and if you put your faith in Jesus". Its kind of a way to say, Jesus died for you, but it has to be made impersonal because they cant know Jesus REALLY died for them, cause maybe that poor sob isnt elect.

We have a free choice and all our choices are predetermined and certain.

The elect ones are the ones God chosen to give them enough of His grace to cause them to freely come to Him. The rest is left in their free and evil desires or sometimes hardened in their free and evil desires.

God wants all people to be saved, to come to truth, because He is love and merciful. Higher reasons led Him to limit the number of saved, though. These reasons are not revealed to us specifically, but generally it was needed for the best world to be created, because God, in His greatness, does only what is best.

Every individual in Adam dies, every individual in Christ is made alive.

Christ is resurrection and the life. Some people will be resurrected to damnation some to eternal life. Daniel 12:2; etc

Romans 5:12 doesnt help the calvinist case at all either. They are always claiming that we believe in universalism, well the tables are turned.

What is the calvinist interpretation of Romans 5:12 and 1 Cor 15:22?

Is it that the "all" refers only to the elect?
The problem would be it says death passed unto ALL MEN in Adam, surely thats not just the elect to whom it was passed? What is the calvinist view here?

Every individual in Adam dies, every individual in Christ is made alive.

Christ is resurrection and the life. Some people will be resurrected to damnation some to eternal life. Daniel 12:2; etc

Romans 5:12 doesnt help the calvinist case at all either. They are always claiming that we believe in universalism, well the tables are turned.

What is the calvinist interpretation of Romans 5:12 and 1 Cor 15:22?

Is it that the "all" refers only to the elect?
The problem would be it says death passed unto ALL MEN in Adam, surely thats not just the elect to whom it was passed? What is the calvinist view here?

Ps 53:2-3 tells us why God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and had his Son purify them so he would have a people that would praise and honor him. God knows what our choices will be before we think them, but he did not predestine them.

God wants all people to be saved, to come to truth, because He is love and merciful. Higher reasons led Him to limit the number of saved, though.

If this is the case, the verses about God wanting all to be saved are USELESS verses. Since He actually doesn't want all to be saved, because of the HIGHER REASONS you mentioned.

There is just no good way to put it. The doctrine of God picking and choosing everyone who is saved and who is not saved just does not line up with the Bible.

If this is the case, the verses about God wanting all to be saved are USELESS verses. Since He actually doesn't want all to be saved, because of the HIGHER REASONS you mentioned.

There is just no good way to put it. The doctrine of God picking and choosing everyone who is saved and who is not saved just does not line up with the Bible.

These verses are not useless, show us who God is and that He is good.

His desire to save all people takes effect in his final result, but not fully, only partially.

His final will is composed of all His inclinations and of all His knowledge and wisdom.

"2 God looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there were any that understood, or sought after God. 3 They have all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, there is not even one."

Not sure where you see that in this verse...

If this is the case, the verses about God wanting all to be saved are USELESS verses. Since He actually doesn't want all to be saved, because of the HIGHER REASONS you mentioned.

There is just no good way to put it. The doctrine of God picking and choosing everyone who is saved and who is not saved just does not line up with the Bible.

In the state all mankind was in, by his foreknowledge, we would have all gone to everlasting hell, had God not chosen some to be saved.