No Eternal Security = No Salvation?

What does the PASSAGE SAY?

The verse says deliberate sin, yes. But what is the deliberate sin?

It does not say in the verse, so youhave to look at context.

Why are you ignoring context? What does the 1st 25 verses talking about? Thats the context. You can not ignore the context. That is what gets people in trouble..

What is the difference if I keep murdering, and keep refusing to do what i know I should be doing?

Again, Your stuck on what you think are grave sins, and ignoring the gospel message of Christ crucified vs salvation by Animal sacrifices which is what hebrews is concerned with

Heb 10 :
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being [d]sanctified.

Here is the context of the passage.

Animal sacrifice, which is insufficient,
And The sacriice of christ, Who perfected forever those of us who are being sanctified (saved)

If this is true,

The pasage your using t prove salvation can be lost is contradicting this passage.

You can not say a person is perfected forever in one breath, then in the next, say but if they commit this sin, they are lost..

Salvation is not a prize......it is a free gift of grace...too bad you devalue it to a winnable stuffed toy in a carnival dart toss!

The gifts of GOD are IRREVOCABLE unless you are a religionist or a Cainologist......

So you do believe Hebrew Christian may fall back to the law

And you do believe go back to the law is deliberate sin
And you do believe No forgiveness for deliberate sin

Use deductive Logic by Aristotele

That mean you do believe Hebrew Christian may lose they salvation

It mean there is inconsistancy in your believe system

The inconsistency is only in your mind.

You're misunderstanding the text.

Still.

In fact, it appears you want to misunderstand it so you read the text through your theology to support your belief that Jesus can't keep a person saved as he said.

Here it is: If they reject Christ, they were not saved, and there is no sacrificial system any longer for their sin.

Its obvious you have not read what i said, now you say something which you should know is not true,

You cant lose what you never had,

But thanks for proving you still do not know my belief system

We should not equate non belief in OSAS to not being saved. Let's wait for God's righteous judgment

We are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH. (Justification) Ephesians 2:8-9

v10
...For we are God’s workmanship, created IN Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance FOR US TO DO. Ephesians 2:10

A NEW creation IN CHRIST JESUS to do GOOD WORKS and to do GOD'S WORKS. (see Ephesians 4:11-13, 1 Corinthians 12)

...We are God's fellow workers (1 Corinthians 3:9) so we don't receive God's grace in vain. (2 Corinthians 6:1) We live HOLY lives as we are SANCTIFIED by the TRUTH of the WORD through the POWER of the Holy Spirit that enables us to meet the RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW (Romans 8:4, Malachi 3:13-18)

We can LOSE our salvation if we don't become obedient to the FAITH and if we change the Grace of our God into a license for immorality and thereby nullifying and rejecting God's WORD, teachings, laws and commandments.(Jude 1:3, Mark 7:6-13)

Believing in OSAS cannot SAVE and the same with non belief in OSAS.

Let's not discredit or reject SANCTIFICATION and God's righteous JUDGMENT unto salvation.

We were JUSTIFIED to be reconciled back to God, out of the power of the darkness and into His light. To be made WORTHY (revelations 3:1-6) of His calling and to serve the living God. (hebrews 9:14)

We were JUSTIFIED to be reborn through the living and enduring WORD of God, to be a new creation IN CHRIST who will do what He has been doing and even more greater things because He and the Father abides in us and work in us and with us through the power of the Holy Spirit helping us and leading us unto all righteousness through our obedience that comes from Faith.(1 Peter 1:23, john 14:12,21-23, 1 corinthians 3:9,12:1-31, 2 Corinthians 6:1, Romans 1:5)

We were Saved(JUSTIFIED) by GRACE through (A LIVING and NOT DEAD) FAITH and this is not of our own works.

Being JUSTIFIED in Christ, the seed that was sown into our hearts
is now ready to GROW and BEAR FRUITS through the SANCTIFICATION by the Holy Spirit through the WORD.(john 17:17)as we wait for a Savior from heaven, our LORD Jesus Christ (Philippians 3:20)and the righteous JUDGMENT of the ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD.

.... Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “be holy, because I am holy.”

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Ephesians 5:6

This is worrysome

You said we can lose salvation if we do not work

Or if we turn licentious

So in both cases. One must EARN salvation or MAINTAIN salvation by their own power. Which means grace is removed from the equation.

True faith works. So true faith will never be workless.

However, (lack of faith) pride will led to both self righteousness and licentiousness. Which are two sides of the same coin.

The fact is clear...we have no authority to declare ourselves..."saved". Only G-d can make that final declaration. That will occur after physical death. I the mean time ...here on earth...we are ..."born again".

This is a copy of our conversation

Jackson123 said:
So you do not believe Hebrew Christian fall back to follow the law, am I correct?

Eternally Said
No, I did not say this.. Why would I say they can not fall back to law? When the context is warning them NOT TO fall back to the law.. Te whole book is concering that issue,,


Jackson

Read your respon

You say : No I (eternally) did not say this

Than to confirm your believe you say

Why should I say they (Hebrew Christian ) can not fall back to the law?

Mean you believe Hebrew Christian can fall back to the law

Read post 332

He say Paul talk to Christian Hebrew, mean Paul talk to save (Christian mean save)
Than he Paul warn Christian Hebrew not fall back to law

Than he say the fact that Paul warn Christian Hebrew mean It is posible for Christian to go back to the law (go back to the law mean lose salvation)

Than he say impossible to lose salvation

Why do you keep this up. Your twisting what I am saying.

My believe is they had faith in the law not christ, thats why they would return to the law. Since they never had faith in Christ, they were never saved.

Your trying to say they had faith, then lost salvation. Not true..

lets get to the heart of the matter

In Vs 14. Hebrws said he has perfectd FOREVER those who are being sanctified (those who are saved)

So How can he says those who are saved are perfected forever. Then say they can lose salvation if they commit some sin. He woud be contradicting himself

I have asked this a few times now. Are you going to answer. Or shoudl I move on.

Not me but you twisted the fact

1. When I ask you was Paul wrote Hebrew to Hebrew Christian

You answer Yes this mean you believe this letter is for Christian or save

2 when I confirm, do you realy believe this is a warning letter not to go back to law

You say yes ( go back to law mean go back to unsave)

3. When I ask you It that possible that Hebrew Christian go back to law

Your answere is Yes, why Paul warn them If there is No posibility to go back

So you believe there is posibility for Hebrew Christian go back to law(back to unsave)

Than you say because they never save

You twisted

You say they are Christian than you say they never save

1. Not everyone who goes to any church is a saved child of God.
2. Yes it was written to hebrew christians. (Being a christian does not mean your SAVED, there will be many so called christians who will never see heaven.)
3. I said multiple times, The warning is to stand firm in faith, not to waver, and put that with the fact that we always return to what our true faith is in.
4. This means, if our faith is in the law And we TRY this christian thing out. When push comes to shove, and tribulation happens, and we figure out it was not what we thought it was. We return to our true love, or what our true faith is in. This was pauls warning, To continue to hold fast and to come to the point where you truly trust Christ for your salvation.
5. His final words were WE ar NOT of THOSE who DRAW BACK. Ie. We (those of us who have truely recieved Christ in faith) Would never go back to law. Because we have the assurance, the trust, the true faith that Jesus is the way, not the law.

So please. Once again, Stop trying to interpret what I say to fit what you want me to say But listen to everything.

One more time
Hebrews said that in one sacriice Jesus perfected ALL who are being sanctified (true believers in Christ)

So how cna he just a few sentences over say these perfected people can lose salvation. He would be contradicting himself.
Why do you refuse to answer that question? If you do not know. Just say so..

e...,

I fear you will find that your discard of G-d's commandments is a failure. Jesus is the way...and stands as representative of G-d's ...."laws".

You not agree to youself friend

1. You say letter to Hebrew is for Hebrew CHRISTIAN.

Let me say one more time, you believe this letter is for believer,

2. You say this letter is warning for Hebrew Christian not go back to law.

Why Paul warn These believer not to go back to the law?

You agree because there us posibility for them go back to the law( go back to unsave)

Than you say impossible for them to go back to the law (lose their salvation)

So you not agree to youself


IF THERE ISN'T POSIBILITY FOR THEM TO GO BACK TO THE LAW WHY BOTHER TO WARN


I am in the desert with my son

I tell my son, be careful do not fall to the water

Hmmm there isn't water in the desert, is there posible he fall in the water where there isn't any water around?

Ok I am done

1. I have said over and over, Just because you are a christian does not make you saved. People were called disciples of Christ, even though jesus himself said they never believed. Just because you claim to go to christ or go to church does NOT make you a child of God.
2. I have asked you 4 times now at least to convince me why those two verses do not contradict themselves. And you refuse to give an answer.

It is obvious you are just here to argue, you have no desire to find out what others think or what they are actually saying, so I am done.

Continue to believe you must earn your salvation if you desire. The fact you refuse to listen to a word I say, and refuse to answer my questions can only lead me to believe you are not a person who can convince me I am wrong.

I will continue to see if you take time to admit your mistake and answer my question, Otherwise, I must more on.

God bless