Two Brothers Argue Law and Grace in a Moving Auto

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HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
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435
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#1
I went to visit the family farm where I lived for many years recently, and my younger brother, who I attended high school with, and who was the drummer/singer in our rock band in the 70's, and a star athlete, and I were driving together in my small car. He insists on driving, which for me is a traumatic experience since I have driven in the city for decades, and he lives in the country and seldom drives. I drive like a rabbit, in fact, used to ddrive a rabbit in the 1980's. He drives like a turtle. No one can make me lose my temper but him. Not even my ex-wife. He is "Bob," in "What About Bob," and I'm Dr. Marvin. He knows how to press the buttons and I'm convinced enjoys the drama that follows.

As usual, we started arguing over how to drive my car. We were driving down the street, and both a bit stressed about other family issues, and a pedestrian started crossing the street away from a cross-walk. We have also been arguing over legalism for many years. Even though I could tell we were going to clear the lane before he crossed, my bro started slowing down in the active lane.
I yelled: "NO!! DON'T STOP!! WE'RE CLEAR!!"
He said loudly: "THE PEDESTRIAN HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY!!"
in the mean time he took his foot off the brake and we coasted past the pedestrian's path.
A loud and heated debate followed:
Bro: "THE PEDESTRIAN ALWAYS HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY!"
Bro2: "YOU CAN'T STOP IN AN ACTIVE LANE!!"
Bro1: "HOW DO I KNOW IF HE'S GOING TO JUMP OUT IN FRONT OF ME!" "THE LAW SAYS TO YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS!!"
Bro2: "YOU CAN CAUSE AN ACCIDENT BY STOPPING IN AN ACTIVE LANE AND RISK THE PEDESTRIAN!"
Bro1: "I ALWAYS OBEY THE LAW!!"
Bro2: "THERE IS A MISSING REAR WINDOW IN THIS CAR BECAUSE I OBEYED THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND STOPPED ON ICE!"
Bro1: "THE LAW IS FOR THE PEDESTRIAN'S SAFETY!

Bro2 (me) Totally goes off and vents many years of church frustration and debating theology and legalism with him and many other Christians, justice reform, and not being able to control my car for one, or the way my brother drives:

"THE LAW DOESN'T RULE THE CHURCH!!"
"THE LAW DOESN'T RULE AMERICA!!"
"THE LAW DOESN'T RULE IN TRAFFIC!!"


I don't remember what we discussed next, probably the church and the 10-commandments, but, I calmed down and we reached a mutual agreement that it was wrong for me to tell him how to drive since he was in charge of the vehicle which created danger, and that it would have been safe in that instance to either stop for the pedestrian, or to coast past.

The law does rule in traffic of course, but, there are exceptions for safety. The law is non-moving, but cars are always moving in a million different situations. There are many situations where if someone obeys the letter of the law, an accident can result, or vice-versa.

But, the law is supposed to be a servant of the people-- not the master.
Paul talks about this in Galatians 4-- maybe someone else could post those verses...too tired...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
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#2
If you love pedestrians you will stop for any who may come into your path. This may be the law, but, in the sight of God it is common sense and falls within the parameters of loving thy neighbor………….We are not under the law, but when the law is within Love, we acknowledge it.
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
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#3
If you love pedestrians you will stop for any who may come into your path. This may be the law, but, in the sight of God it is common sense and falls within the parameters of loving thy neighbor………….We are not under the law, but when the law is within Love, we acknowledge it.
that makes good sense. I like what you said "We are not under the law, but when the law is within Love, we acknowledge it."

to be honest, driving, especially in the city, stresses me out these days. To really be a safe driver, you have to be hyper-vigilant, always ahead of the next situation--you have to be a rabbit. and it wears you out. and yes, pedestrians, or cars, can come out of nowhere, we should always be aware that kids can bolt, dogs, cats, I brake for birds... around here you never know when a moose will cross the highway. down south it's deer--

Jesus traveled the speed of a donkey-- Maybe He knew something we didn't? He built His ministry around a few dozen people, all within walking distance pretty much-- at least He didn't get stressed out traveling like we do in our modern society.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
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#4
Hey, I thought Jesus travelled around in a Cadillac or a Popemobile type vehicle.

OK......you got it, I am making a bad joke. Thank you for your kind and caring comment. You ae a humble one. I like mooses too, beavers everything, and I would brake for humming birds aqnd the like too. All blessing always in Jesus Christ……..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#5
in US the law doesn't actually always give pedestrians the right of way. in certain places like college campuses or downtowns of some cities it does, but in many cities it's only if they are on a crosswalk, and often even on a crosswalk it's only when they have a sign saying it's clear to walk.

jaywalking exists as a crime - if someone jumps out in front of you it's not necessarily your fault if you hit them.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#6
it's love that makes me hit the brakes, not law :)
even when it is the law!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#7
In California the law for pedestrians, used to be even when in the wrong if you pass a pedestrian who has sstepped off of a curbinto the stree you were ticketed. The pedestrian would get a ticket also if jay walking, but the pedestrian always had the right-of--way.

This may have changed by now, but I always abide by that , well when I drove I did...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#8
I went to visit the family farm where I lived for many years recently, and my younger brother, who I attended high school with, and who was the drummer/singer in our rock band in the 70's, and a star athlete, and I were driving together in my small car. He insists on driving, which for me is a traumatic experience since I have driven in the city for decades, and he lives in the country and seldom drives. I drive like a rabbit, in fact, used to ddrive a rabbit in the 1980's. He drives like a turtle. No one can make me lose my temper but him. Not even my ex-wife. He is "Bob," in "What About Bob," and I'm Dr. Marvin. He knows how to press the buttons and I'm convinced enjoys the drama that follows.

As usual, we started arguing over how to drive my car. We were driving down the street, and both a bit stressed about other family issues, and a pedestrian started crossing the street away from a cross-walk. We have also been arguing over legalism for many years. Even though I could tell we were going to clear the lane before he crossed, my bro started slowing down in the active lane.
I yelled: "NO!! DON'T STOP!! WE'RE CLEAR!!"
He said loudly: "THE PEDESTRIAN HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY!!"
in the mean time he took his foot off the brake and we coasted past the pedestrian's path.
A loud and heated debate followed:
Bro: "THE PEDESTRIAN ALWAYS HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY!"
Bro2: "YOU CAN'T STOP IN AN ACTIVE LANE!!"
Bro1: "HOW DO I KNOW IF HE'S GOING TO JUMP OUT IN FRONT OF ME!" "THE LAW SAYS TO YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS!!"
Bro2: "YOU CAN CAUSE AN ACCIDENT BY STOPPING IN AN ACTIVE LANE AND RISK THE PEDESTRIAN!"
Bro1: "I ALWAYS OBEY THE LAW!!"
Bro2: "THERE IS A MISSING REAR WINDOW IN THIS CAR BECAUSE I OBEYED THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND STOPPED ON ICE!"
Bro1: "THE LAW IS FOR THE PEDESTRIAN'S SAFETY!

Bro2 (me) Totally goes off and vents many years of church frustration and debating theology and legalism with him and many other Christians, justice reform, and not being able to control my car for one, or the way my brother drives:

"THE LAW DOESN'T RULE THE CHURCH!!"
"THE LAW DOESN'T RULE AMERICA!!"
"THE LAW DOESN'T RULE IN TRAFFIC!!"


I don't remember what we discussed next, probably the church and the 10-commandments, but, I calmed down and we reached a mutual agreement that it was wrong for me to tell him how to drive since he was in charge of the vehicle which created danger, and that it would have been safe in that instance to either stop for the pedestrian, or to coast past.

The law does rule in traffic of course, but, there are exceptions for safety. The law is non-moving, but cars are always moving in a million different situations. There are many situations where if someone obeys the letter of the law, an accident can result, or vice-versa.

But, the law is supposed to be a servant of the people-- not the master.
Paul talks about this in Galatians 4-- maybe someone else could post those verses...too tired...

The "world" and "church" are two separate entities.

We have the rule of law in the ``world`` for a reason...in the world we are under the law.
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
83
66
#9
Hey, I thought Jesus travelled around in a Cadillac or a Popemobile type vehicle.

OK......you got it, I am making a bad joke. Thank you for your kind and caring comment. You ae a humble one. I like mooses too, beavers everything, and I would brake for humming birds aqnd the like too. All blessing always in Jesus Christ……..
You got me to laugh this early morning! I've heard that question before-- what kind of car would Jesus drive? I don't think He would drive at all. Kings let other people drive, so they can rest--
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
83
66
#10
In California the law for pedestrians, used to be even when in the wrong if you pass a pedestrian who has sstepped off of a curbinto the stree you were ticketed. The pedestrian would get a ticket also if jay walking, but the pedestrian always had the right-of--way.

This may have changed by now, but I always abide by that , well when I drove I did...
That's very interesting. I wonder how a police officer would see that? Whether it was more dangerous for the pedestrian for the car to stop in an active lane, thereby risking an accident, or to yield to the letter of the law?
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
83
66
#11
in US the law doesn't actually always give pedestrians the right of way. in certain places like college campuses or downtowns of some cities it does, but in many cities it's only if they are on a crosswalk, and often even on a crosswalk it's only when they have a sign saying it's clear to walk.

jaywalking exists as a crime - if someone jumps out in front of you it's not necessarily your fault if you hit them.
that's why there are so many court cases over traffic--
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
83
66
#12
The "world" and "church" are two separate entities.

We have the rule of law in the ``world`` for a reason...in the world we are under the law.
In some churches, religious law does rule.
and, what if the rule of law, violates the laws of the bible, or the laws of the bible violate the rule of law?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#13
I have not been able to drive for the last 35 years……...I am not familiar with the term, active lane, but it sounds like any lane with moving traffic.

However, according to my understanding of the traffic laws (California), we are to leave onecar length for each ten mph………..that is spposed to allow raction time for the peron in front should the need come to brake quickly.

People do all sorts of things these days that do not make a whole lot of sense, but I know where that comes from too. God bless yu……...stay a good driver...…..a God driver. Oh, Jesus never fatigues and His work is never over…...He has eternity to look forward to, taking care of you, me and thos other folks...
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#14
in US the law doesn't actually always give pedestrians the right of way. in certain places like college campuses or downtowns of some cities it does, but in many cities it's only if they are on a crosswalk, and often even on a crosswalk it's only when they have a sign saying it's clear to walk.

jaywalking exists as a crime - if someone jumps out in front of you it's not necessarily your fault if you hit them.
Right, only if they are in the crosswalk already.
However, caution is in order, in case they do the wrong thing.
If you hit them, it is your fault. (typically)

I live in a metropolis with two neighboring cities.
In one city, the one I grew up in, pedestrians look to see if there is traffic before crossing a road or entering a crosswalk.
In the other city they just walk out in front of you thinking they have the right of way.
I learned this when I was driving a vehicle with half a ton of cargo.

The other thing about right of way is, that it is always given, never taken.
We are to YIELD the right of way to the other.

At a four way stop, the one who stops first or is on your right side has the right of way.
We yield the right of way to the one who stops first, or is to our right side.
If someone waves the other on it causes problems with the other drivers.
Chaos can ensue when the applicable rules are not followed. (applicable)
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
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#15
You got me to laugh this early morning! I've heard that question before-- what kind of car would Jesus drive? I don't think He would drive at all. Kings let other people drive, so they can rest--
Reminds me of the story of a Dad that wouldn't let his son drive the car until he got his long hair cut short.
The son reasoned that Jesus had long hair. Dad replied, "Yes, and he walked everywhere he went."
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#16
In some churches, religious law does rule.
and, what if the rule of law, violates the laws of the bible, or the laws of the bible violate the rule of law?
Yes I know the law, is flawed and we need justice reform and if we pray to God, He can accomplish this by causing an earthquake to teach those nasty law enforcers a lesson.

laws of the bible violate the rule of law
Then you should have a thread where the law compels Christians to act contrary to their beliefs, rather than how law breakers are treated unfairly.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
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#17
Reminds me of the story of a Dad that wouldn't let his son drive the car until he got his long hair cut short.
The son reasoned that Jesus had long hair. Dad replied, "Yes, and he walked everywhere he went."
* also rode the foal of a donkey ;)

which doesn't help the kid's case haha
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
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435
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#18
Reminds me of the story of a Dad that wouldn't let his son drive the car until he got his long hair cut short.
The son reasoned that Jesus had long hair. Dad replied, "Yes, and he walked everywhere he went."
That's a good one!
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
83
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#19
Yes I know the law, is flawed and we need justice reform and if we pray to God, He can accomplish this by causing an earthquake to teach those nasty law enforcers a lesson.



Then you should have a thread where the law compels Christians to act contrary to their beliefs, rather than how law breakers are treated unfairly.
I prayed for the earthquake as a warning, and to confirm public outcry. It was not directed at law enforcement, but, policies that were opposed at every level of government from the governor down, as well as the federal level. Law enforcement wants reform too. They likely knew that the person they took to the prison that day was not going to survive, but, were powerless to prevent it, since the request was made by the father, who trusted his city to save his child.

The public prayer request was made, unknown to me, about the time the young lady (80 pounds) was dying without medical help in a pre-trial facility. It was confirmed. And it happened. One day before the federal government announced a change in solitary confinement policies, a few days after the Martin Luther King Jr. remembrance, one of which I organized in state housing, and directly after the lady's death.
I am involved in justice reform because Jesus was. It's about freedom. It's about opposing discrimination and a violation of Constitutional rights, and because I have been oppressed all my life, from family, community, and spiritually, mainly due to legalism idolatry, as well as my own life paths.
To me, it was an amazing, unprecedented expression of the power of God, symbolic of spiritual freedom that Jesus announced in Nazareth:
"I have come to announce freedom to all humanity upon the earth." (paraphrase)
You'll have to ask Him.