Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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No RCC until 300 A.D. There was a Bishop of Rome, but he wasn't Peter. In fact, Peter was never in Rome at all, not even once, in all his life.
I agree but you will never get the Catholic Church to agree. Back then there were no denominations. It was just the church.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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It was just the church.
Yes, and they had the Scriptures. As long as they stayed true to the Word of God they were fine, but it didn't take long for doctrinal heresy to grow. It was already present as Paul warned throughout the Epistles. There is the true Gospel - Paul penned it in I Corinthians 15:1-4 and warned about the other gospel in Galatians chapter 1.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Yes, and they had the Scriptures. As long as they stayed true to the Word of God they were fine, but it didn't take long for doctrinal heresy to grow. It was already present as Paul warned throughout the Epistles. There is the true Gospel - Paul penned it in I Corinthians 15:1-4 and warned about the other gospel in Galatians chapter 1.
The early elders created the creeds between 212 and 500. They serve 3 purposes.
1. Define what a Christian must believe.
2. Anything contrary is heresy.
3. Any Biblical issue outside of the creeds is to agree to disagree.

These disagreements have created the various gospel preaching denominations of today. Here is an example. Both sides have long texts with plenty of scripture references backing up their position. This is outside of the creeds so we just agree to disagree. The last 2 web sites defend their positions. Try and prove them wrong.

Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate

Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm

Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Why does one reject it and the other obey it?
Pride? Humility?

The one who rejects does not submit to the will of God?

The one who does not reject humbles him/herself?




selfdissolving said:
Why does the Word reach the heart of one person but not the heart of the other? What is the determining factor?
I believe the calvinist believes it's that the one who rejects is not "elect" so he/she does not have "ears to hear" or "eyes to see" and the one who does not reject is "elect" and God has given him/her "ears to hear" and "eyes to see".

Rom 1:20 tells us that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness concerning God's eternal power and righteousness (as revealed through the natural, physical creation) are without excuse.

However, if God does not give "eyes to see" or "ears to hear" to all mankind, then the one who rejects has an excuse come judgment day.

Is the gospel of Christ so spiritually complex that it takes a "spiritual rocket scientist" to understand?

Jesus Christ died for the sins of all mankind;

Jesus Christ was buried and He rose again the third day;

Jesus Christ is Lord;

That truth is not so difficult to understand. However, there are some who reject that simple truth. Is it because God does not give them "ears to hear" or is it because they are prideful and will not humble themselves and believe that they have a sin problem or that Christ died for sin or that Christ rose again from the dead or that Christ is Lord?

Some unbelievers agree that they have problems but will not humble themselves to accept that God requires a blood sacrifice.

Unbelievers do not believe that God raised Jesus from the dead even though there were eyewitnesses (1 Cor 15:5-7).

Unbelievers do not believe that Jesus Christ is Lord.

When the unbeliever rejects the truth that Christ died for the sins of all mankind, that God raised Christ from the dead, and Jesus Christ is Lord, does he/she reject because God does not give "ears to hear" or does he/she reject because he/she suppresses the truth in unrighteousness?



 
Mar 23, 2016
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Before a person can hear and believe the spiritual gospel they would have to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is given in regeneration. (Eph 2: especially in verse 5.)
In other words, a person must be born again before he/she can "hear and believe the spiritual gospel"?

You've got it backwards.

Just read and believe what is written in Ephesians 1:13:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

We trusted after we heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then we believed, then we were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.



 
Dec 28, 2016
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In other words, a person must be born again before he/she can "hear and believe the spiritual gospel"?

You've got it backwards.

Just read and believe what is written in Ephesians 1:13:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

We trusted after we heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then we believed, then we were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
Well, actually, it's not backwards though some of what FGC teaches is errant.

A person must be born again before they can see the kingdom of God, note John 3:3. This doesn't mean enter. It is "to understand, to perceive" and that comes from being regenerated. Thus, again, John 3:3.

God does a work on the heart of the person to see the truths of the Gospel, and their faith is evidence of conversion. God works this in the heart of the elect when they hear the Gospel.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Sounds like good enough reason to me for God to preserve His Word throughout all generations. I have one that He has richly blessed for 407 years now . . . it's still saving souls today.

Bibles are getting 'simpler' and the world is getting uglier . . . but as long as there is a buck to be made, someone is going to come out with a Bible that he can copyright and get rich off of.
Bibles do not save souls eternally, the only souls that are going to be saved eternally was accomplished on the cross and I don't think there were any bibles then, however, The gospel (bible) does deliver (save) souls here in this world, just not eternally.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Can everyone "hear the Gospel"?

In other words, does a person have to be "elect" to be able to "hear the Gospel"?
First, show me where God doing this work is false, and show where no person can perceive these things until they are born again as false too.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Bibles do not save souls eternally, the only souls that are going to be saved eternally was accomplished on the cross and I don't think there were any bibles then, however, The gospel (bible) does deliver (save) souls here in this world, just not eternally.
FAITH comes by hearing, and hearing BY THE WORD

For by grace we have been saved through FAITH

Eternal life is given to those who HAVE FAITH.

Sorry My friend, But the word is what leads people to eternal salvation.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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FAITH comes by hearing, and hearing BY THE WORD

For by grace we have been saved through FAITH

Eternal life is given to those who HAVE FAITH.

Sorry My friend, But the word is what leads people to eternal salvation.
They continue to resist the Holy Spirit and ignore Ephesians 1:12-14.

But really, I don't care.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Can everyone "hear the Gospel"?

In other words, does a person have to be "elect" to be able to "hear the Gospel"?
They are not telling you the truth, God has somewhat to say to them . . .

"A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape . . . A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish" (Proverbs 19:5, 9).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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FAITH comes by hearing, and hearing BY THE WORD

For by grace we have been saved through FAITH

Eternal life is given to those who HAVE FAITH.

Sorry My friend, But the word is what leads people to eternal salvation.
For by grace are ye saved "Through faith". Whose faith? The faith "OF" Jesus (Gal 4:16). Our faith delivers us here on earth, but not eternally.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
For by grace are ye saved "Through faith". Whose faith? The faith "OF" Jesus (Gal 4:16). Our faith delivers us here on earth, but not eternally.
No, That is not even close to being true. It wouldl contradict the rest of the word which says he who believes (has faith) is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

My Faiht is the gift of God. As is My Salvation, it is ALL based on the grace of God.

Believe you me, Jesus has no faith in me..And his faith in me is NOT why I am saved.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I agree but you will never get the Catholic Church to agree. Back then there were no denominations. It was just the church.
No such thing as no denomination or sect. That would be simply impossible with this corrupted creation we live in. The kingdom of God which is not of this world never came by observation . Two or three that gather together in His name constitutes a denomination or sect.

The first sect listed on this side of the cross is the Nazarene sect . There were more than a hundred of sects in Jerusalem at the time of the first century reformation.

Because the Catholic were a sect they simply reverted back to the time period before the first century reformation. The same reforming agent.... "all things written in the law and the prophets"(sola scriptura) It as it is written destroyed their necromancy foundation just as in Judaism .You could say that Catholicism is a carbon copy of corrupted Judaism using different men in the end of the matter to make the word of God without effect.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If the gospel is spiritual, then the natural man cannot hear and discern it, he thinks that it is foolish.
Thats why The HS is sent, to help ALL men understand. (Thus they have no excuse) This why God is still God, His soverignty is still intact, (His will is STILL accomplished) and his LOVE is proven beyond all measure

Otherwise, he is just a respector of persons.. who CLAIMS he is a god of love, but in reality is not..
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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No, That is not even close to being true. It wouldl contradict the rest of the word which says he who believes (has faith) is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

My Faiht is the gift of God. As is My Salvation, it is ALL based on the grace of God.

Believe you me, Jesus has no faith in me..And his faith in me is NOT why I am saved.
The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 has no faith in spiritual things. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit and spiritual faith comes with regeneration.(Eph 2:5). Believing, repenting, accepting Jesus, confessing etc. only comes after regeneration.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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No, That is not even close to being true. It wouldl contradict the rest of the word which says he who believes (has faith) is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

My Faiht is the gift of God. As is My Salvation, it is ALL based on the grace of God.

Believe you me, Jesus has no faith in me..And his faith in me is NOT why I am saved.
What do you mean by Jesus has no faith in you and his faith is not why you are saved?
 
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