The Bookends

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#41
@Grace911

am i using the wrong calculators or are you nuts or should you probably unsubscribe from a certain spam email list?
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
70
Illinois
#42
Yes Jesus did all those things when he died on the cross, Matt 24 talks about things that will happen before 'this generation shall pass' which was Jacob's trouble, destruction of the temple and scattering of Jews.
He accomplished the first three items . . . I'm not feeling everlasting righteousness yet. He has yet to seal up the prophecy as they will be done with the opening of the seven-sealed book. And when has Netanyahu or any other Jewish leader formally proclaimed that Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel.

Now, on to you other question . . . I thought I'd give you a couple of minutes to think it over . . .

You wanted to know if there had been any other break in time in God's actions to man . . .

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" (Isaiah 61:1-2).

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:18-19).

What is missing in Luke?
 
Nov 18, 2018
88
56
18
#43
He accomplished the first three items . . . I'm not feeling everlasting righteousness yet. He has yet to seal up the prophecy as they will be done with the opening of the seven-sealed book. And when has Netanyahu or any other Jewish leader formally proclaimed that Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel.

Now, on to you other question . . . I thought I'd give you a couple of minutes to think it over . . .

You wanted to know if there had been any other break in time in God's actions to man . . .

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" (Isaiah 61:1-2).

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:18-19).

What is missing in Luke?
Everlasting righteousness from God's perspective, our sins are forever forgiven by His Son. Daniel 9 was timed out to the hour 500+ years in advance. The Isaiah and Luke verses are more about events rathar than dates.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#44


is that a ufo?

I think I see a ufo

hello? 911? dere's a ufo at duh park
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,158
1,974
113
#46
Yeah, it says "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy [Daniel's] people and upon thy [Daniel's] holy city, to..." and on [what we call] Palm Sunday (before Jesus' death on the cross), He'd said what is shown in Luke 19:41-44 -

41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round [see Lk21:20], and keep thee in on every side,

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


69 Weeks were fulfilled (to the day) on the very day He said this (and did this: Zech9:9 "thy king cometh unto thee" [speaking of Jerusalem]).
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
70
Illinois
#47
Yeah, it says "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy [Daniel's] people and upon thy [Daniel's] holy city, to..." and on [what we call] Palm Sunday (before Jesus' death on the cross), He'd said what is shown in Luke 19:41-44 -

41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round [see Lk21:20], and keep thee in on every side,

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


69 Weeks were fulfilled (to the day) on the very day He said this (and did this: Zech9:9 "thy king cometh unto thee" [speaking of Jerusalem]).
The thing that amazes me is that as we see what is going on around us in this world that not more people are finding themselves accepting premillennialism. You got Islam running amok, you got the capital city being returned to Jerusalem, you got the 'mark of the beast' technology almost commonplace, you see globalism taking hold everywhere . . . what more do people need to see? Good night!
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
585
146
43
#48
@Grace911

am i using the wrong calculators or are you nuts or should you probably unsubscribe from a certain spam email list?
I used the Strong’s Hebrew letters and Strong’s Greek letters, and the numbers associated with each letter. Other than a regular adding of numbers, no special calculations.
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
585
146
43
#50
בראשית in Jewish Gematria equals 913.

ב 2 ר 200 א 1 ש 300 י 10 ת 400

your calculation left off the beth ב
Yes I don’t have a Beth. Used Strong’s H7225 and doesn’t have Beth.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,304
16,297
113
69
Tennessee
#51
A modern interpretation of Daniel 70 weeks is to remove the final 70th week from the previous 69 consecutive weeks and assign it to some unknown time in the future. Classic Daniel 9 interpretation is the 70th week ended right after the 69th week, around the time of Christ, and Jacob's trouble occured from 66-70 AD with the besiege of Jerusalem, where 1 million Jews died and the remaining ones scattered to the four corners of the earth.

Can you think of any other timeline in the Bible that was fragmented in the way people suggest for Daniel 70 weeks? The Bible and its prophecies would be uncomprehensible if people break it up it the same way they do to Daniel 9.
I believe that the prophecy is already broken up in the bible and not by the ones attempting to interpret it.
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
585
146
43
#53
בראשית in Jewish Gematria equals 913.

ב 2 ר 200 א 1 ש 300 י 10 ת 400

your calculation left off the beth ב
You got me searching to understand that initial letter. I found a teaching of P.P. Simmons explains “In the Beginning”. I’ll post the teaching. It says the son of God created....
 
Nov 22, 2018
109
19
18
#54
[pre-tribber, here :) ]

As for the bolded portion ^ , this statement of yours seems to be assuming a few things; so consider these:

--in Lk22:30,16,18 Jesus states, "I will not any more eat thereof [that is, of the passover (v.15)] UNTIL it BE FULFILLED in the kingdom of God..." [v.18 says (regarding His 'I will not drink of the fruit of the vine...') "until the kingdom of God shall come..."; see also Matthew 26:29]

--your scenario seems to assume a "fall-to-fall" tribulation period [aka the 70th-Wk/7-yrs], but I believe the scriptural evidence shows it more likely to be a "spring-to-spring" span of duration (thus ending in the spring of the year-set [of 7 yrs]), rather than "fall-to-fall" as is commonly supposed

--your scenario [possibly] assumes that Matthew 24:36 [and thus any of the Olivet Discourse context] refers to "the rapture," whereas I believe its context is His Second Coming to the earth; therefore, if this phrase in v.36 is indeed an "idiom" (referring to the fall feast of Rosh Hashanah, as some suggest), then since the context refers to His Second coming to the earth (and events surrounding THAT), it is NOT alluding to (nor pointing toward) our Rapture (but something else)
Hi Bro!

I humbly submit much proof of a post tribulation rapture on the morning of the 8th day of the last feast called the "end gathering" or Feast of Tabernacles":

**Link removed**
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,158
1,974
113
#55
Hi Bro!

I humbly submit much proof of a post tribulation rapture on the morning of the 8th day of the last feast called the "end gathering" or Feast of Tabernacles":
Not having looked at your link, let me just say that I've considered the "8th Day" (following Tabernacles) viewpoint, and have concluded that it has far less "connections," if you will, than that of other choices/considerations.

Have you considered that, during the "7 days [of Tabernacles]," all the nations were welcome to come and participate; but on "the 8th day," God met with "Israel alone". Why would our Rapture (pertaining solely to "the Church which is His body") take place at such a time, especially since Rev19 shows Jesus "RETURNING" to the earth, and 19:15b says [re: "the nations"] that "He shall rule/shepherd them [the nations] with a rod/sceptre of iron [righteousness and strength],"

… and the "BLESSED are those [PLURAL] HAVING BEEN CALLED/INVITED [i.e. DURING the trib yrs] unto the wedding FEAST/SUPPER of the Lamb" (which is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" there; in contradistinction to "the MARRIAGE" itself, having already taken place [aorist] in Heaven, by that point in the chronology, and He is now "returning" as a ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom" [WITH His ALREADY-WED (at that point) "BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]"], where the Matt22:9-14/Matt25:1-13/Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 contexts take up the next scene, in the chronology]). "BLESSED" parallels such as Daniel 12:12, Matthew 25:31-34, etc... (MK-entrance references)...

I see far more evidence for:

--a "spring-to-spring" 70th-Wk/7-yrs/tribulation period

--"2520 days" precisely, between [what is depicted in] Rev5-and-Rev19 (where "kings go out to battle" [chpt 19] and were "crowned" at a very specific time, per OT passages)

--too many other things to list here, at the moment...:) [I need to go eat my peanut butter and jelly sandwich :D ]
 
Nov 22, 2018
109
19
18
#56
Not having looked at your link, let me just say that I've considered the "8th Day" (following Tabernacles) viewpoint, and have concluded that it has far less "connections," if you will, than that of other choices/considerations.

Have you considered that, during the "7 days [of Tabernacles]," all the nations were welcome to come and participate; but on "the 8th day," God met with "Israel alone". Why would our Rapture (pertaining solely to "the Church which is His body") take place at such a time, especially since Rev19 shows Jesus "RETURNING" to the earth, and 19:15b says [re: "the nations"] that "He shall rule/shepherd them [the nations] with a rod/sceptre of iron [righteousness and strength],"

… and the "BLESSED are those [PLURAL] HAVING BEEN CALLED/INVITED [i.e. DURING the trib yrs] unto the wedding FEAST/SUPPER of the Lamb" (which is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" there; in contradistinction to "the MARRIAGE" itself, having already taken place [aorist] in Heaven, by that point in the chronology, and He is now "returning" as a ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom" [WITH His ALREADY-WED (at that point) "BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]"], where the Matt22:9-14/Matt25:1-13/Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 contexts take up the next scene, in the chronology]). "BLESSED" parallels such as Daniel 12:12, Matthew 25:31-34, etc... (MK-entrance references)...

I see far more evidence for:

--a "spring-to-spring" 70th-Wk/7-yrs/tribulation period

--"2520 days" precisely, between [what is depicted in] Rev5-and-Rev19 (where "kings go out to battle" [chpt 19] and were "crowned" at a very specific time, per OT passages)

--too many other things to list here, at the moment...:) [I need to go eat my peanut butter and jelly sandwich :D ]
Please consider who "Israel" is in our covenant bro:

**Link removed**
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,158
1,974
113
#57
Please consider who "Israel" is in our covenant bro:
Might you consider:

"How is the Term 'Israel' Used in the New Testament?"

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm


Only three of its 73 total usages in the NT are under question (everyone agrees the other 70 refer to national Israel), and only ONCE are all those in the Reformed perspective in agreement (not all agree on the other two), but check out that one usage and how it cannot be referring to "the Church which is His body" (speaking of Gal6:16).


Also, "reconcile both unto God IN ONE BODY by the cross..." speaks to [per context] "the Church which is His body" (wherein there is neither Jew nor Gentile in our standing before God IN CHRIST). And "built upon the foundation of the [NT] apostles and prophets..." [outta time here, sry! lol]
 
Nov 22, 2018
109
19
18
#58
Why yes brother Galatians 6:16 is indeed speaking of one "olive tree" called "all Israel" for Paul clearly addressed who the seed of Abraham by promise was, is, and always will be:

Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (28) There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.

Please do not forget that Abraham was a gentile and it was not until his grandson Jacob was renamed by God to "Israel" which means "he will rule as God" in Hebrew and "he shall be a prince of God" in Greek:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3478&t=KJV

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2474&t=KJV

Please study both of those posts before making claims that do not agree with the sum of Father's Word bro :)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,158
1,974
113
#59
Why yes brother Galatians 6:16 is indeed speaking of one "olive tree" called "all Israel" for Paul clearly addressed who the seed of Abraham by promise was, is, and always will be:

Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (28) There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.

Please do not forget that Abraham was a gentile and it was not until his grandson Jacob was renamed by God to "Israel" which means "he will rule as God" in Hebrew and "he shall be a prince of God" in Greek:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3478&t=KJV

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2474&t=KJV

Please study both of those posts before making claims that do not agree with the sum of Father's Word bro :)
I should have been more specific. There are TWO "UPONS" in Galatians 6:16, and I'm referring to the latter one, the ONE that some claim makes up THE WHOLE. It doesn't.




[I do not believe "the Olive Tree" is "All Israel," but "God's Governmental Ways Upon the Earth"(Rom11:25-28 Israel' "BLINDNESS... UNTIL")]
 
Nov 22, 2018
109
19
18
#60
Please consider the context my friend for Paul was clearly communicating to one body made up of both Jews and Gentiles:

Galatians 6:13-17 For not even they who receive circumcision do themselves keep the law; but they desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. (14) But far be it from me to glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. (15) For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (16) And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. (17) Henceforth let no man trouble me; for I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus.

Paul was speaking to the babes in Christ, who are just coming into the understing of the irrelevance of circumcision, that mercy and peace be upon them. He was also wishing mercy and peace upon those who are much more mature in Christ to the point they are actually ruling as a god over their flesh:

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Hebrews 5:12-14 For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food. (13) For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. (14) But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (2) of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this will we do, if God permit.