MOSES ON MOUNT SINAI

If a person who look to the foundation of Baptism it does not say Baptism is an outward sign of an already completed work.

Baptism which is not effectual but is rather an appeal or a outward desire to God to become a member of the priesthood after the new order. The roots go back to Aaron.

I have never heard of a priesthood connection in all my years. Baptism is symbolic of death burial and resurrection as well as cleansing once for all of sins. In the NT.

I have heard what you offered before. Where did some come up with that idea that baptism is symbolic of death burial and resurrection as well as cleansing once for all of sins. In the NT as the foundation ???

It would seem to replace the foundation as desire to minster the gospel as a kingdom of priest.

So, metaphor? Do you believe that Jesus Christ shed Blood on the cross?

As a outward demonstration of the work of the unseen pouring out of the Holy Spirit . Yes

Demonstrations demonstrate as that which could not profit (flesh and blood). Its the unseen Spirit that can and does quicken our souls.

The life of the flesh is in the blood. But that life is spirit not seen .Water is used the same way a metaphor.

Its where the Jehovah witnesses error making literal blood the essence of life as why they refuse blood transfusions .

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

A good example in the parable below. "as it were" shows us a parable is in view

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was "as it were" great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

The thief on the cross could not do anything concerning baptism, for what was He to say, hey you, no not you, you, could you please let me down from this cross for I need to be baptized in water.

And Jesus had not died yet, and Peter did not preach the first message to get the Church started after the 120 people received the Holy Spirit.

We are saved by faith alone, for that is all we can do, but we still have to go through the 3 steps the man Christ Jesus did, which He died, was buried, and rose again, and we repent of our sins, water baptized, receive the Spirit.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Remission
aphesis
af'-es-is
From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and will someone say we need faith alone to be saved, but receiving the Holy Spirit is not part of the salvation plan of God, which we know it is for without the Spirit we are not saved, so it is more than faith alone if we have to allow the Spirit to lead us.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were all baptized in the name of Jesus, which is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, for Jesus said He came in His Father's name, the Son inherited the name from the Father, and the Holy Ghost comes in the name of Jesus, and Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Baptized in this verse is water baptism, and it states be baptized, and wash away your sins, remission of sins, forgiveness.

baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

It appears as if we have to be water baptized for what do we do with all that information concerning it.

Denominations influence a lot of people.

But if someone confesses Christ, but is in a position like the thief on the cross, or dies before they could get water baptized, or does not have the understanding of it yet, or was not preached to them, and they die before they could understand it, then baptism can be bypassed, but if someone reads it in the Bible but ignores it then they are accountable.

Like they say faith alone, not saved by works, but charity, love in action, is greater than faith, for it is love alone, not faith alone, and Paul said if they do not have charity, which is love in action, works, then they are nothing, and they erred from the faith, and James said that if they do not have charity then their faith is dead, and John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word only, but love in deed and truth, and that is why works matter in our salvation, works of love, which we see many lack that for they go by their wants with money, and material things, which the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

And love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, which if a person sins they enjoyed the sin for if they did not enjoy the sin they would not do it, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sin led by the Spirit.

Denominations influence a lot of people.

Do you believe that it is only through the shed literal Blood of Jesus Christ that a man may be saved, and then cleansed throughout that Christian's life?

Perhaps there is some truth in that statement, but you are aware that the baptism in the New Testament was spiritual and instantaneous to our being born again? That water baptism which follows hours, days, weeks later is a picture of the inward truth?

If a man receives Jesus Christ and is not baptized in water for some time, and he dies before he can be baptized in water, is he still saved and in the presence of his Saviour?

Only humans need inquire. Angels can not be saved. Devils can not be saved. Animals can not be saved? Why? They are not humans. They must first have a physical birth (if you doubt what I am saying it is easily proved), and then born spiritually -- the new birth.

There is no ritual or work or act that we do or can do that is the least bit effective in terms of Salvation. Christ did that Work on our behalf. All we do is remain obedient and that includes the ordinance of Baptism, however this adds or detracts nothing from the already completed act. Any view to the contrary is the error of either legalism or works.

I take it you believe a saved person can lose their salvation then?

How does one remain 'obedient' to a perfect standard?

No I do not. Once saved always saved, quite impossible to be once saved and lose it. The Gift received is received once for all. Obedience waxes and wanes. Think of Abraham. Or Peter for that matter.

I agree with that, there are certain 'catch phrases' that a few folk use over here and 'remaining obedient' is one of them. Our God remains faithful to His promise even when we are not. It is not a loss of salvation that need trouble us, but a loss of rewards which will be great, great indeed - yet we are saved yet so as by fire! (I Corinthians 3).

I notice Preacher4truth does not like the truth (gave my post a thumbs down). Every thread should stay on topic. So a trip to Mt Sinai by the preacher would be in order. And don't forget to visit the monastery over there. Tischendorf made a name for himself.

Explain and prove your statement.

Quantrill

I'm....I'm..be still my beating heart! I don't believes what my eyes are reading!

BBB? You actually stated something I've been trying to impart upon some of these people in the BDF for CENTURIES! Well, for quite some time anyways!

Is NOT works FOR Salvation! One can just believe, and not DO ANYTHING! One would still be saved! The Rewards? That's another story!

The gospel was restored in the 1800's (where was it prior to then? maybe in Joseph Smith's foot locker?)
Baptism is only valid if performed by a Campbellite preacher.
If a person dies before they can be water baptized they are lost . . .

The internet is available to you, you know . . .

At least until God removes these verses . . .

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:4-5).

Yes it is.


5. We believe that through the atonement of Christ all men may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel; viz. : Faith in God and in the Lord Jesus Christ; Repentance and Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; Laying on of Hands for: (a) Ordination; (b) Blessing of Children; (c) Confirmation and the Gift of the Holy Ghost; (d) Healing of the Sick.
(John 3:16-17; Hel 5:69-72, 6:1-2; 2 Ne 13:12-17; Mi 8:29; (a) Acts 13:1-3; Mi 3:1-3; (b) Mark 10:13-16; 3 Ne 8:20-27; (c) Acts 8:14-17; Mi 2:1-3; (d) Mark 16:17-18; Jas 5:14-16)

http://www.churchofchrist-tl.org/basicBeliefs.html

I don't understand, I thought salvation is simple: faith in God's grace.