Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

Addendum because of the 5 minute rule.
Your theology of Christ dying on the cross is flawed. He was the unblemished Lamb of God who died in our place with our sins imbued to him and his righteousness imbued to us. Goes back to the yearly sacrifice each person was to make. Their sins were placed on the unblemished lamb.
We just need to accept his grace through faith in him.

We are all guilty of sinning!!
In point of fact Jesus stated the law is in force until the heavens and earth disappear. Therefore if you broke any of the laws you are deemed as guilty of them all. That goes for everyone. If they don't accept the grace given them then at judgement time Jesus will say he never knew them when they talk about their works. Works doesn't save but grace through faith in Jesus will cause works. Those works as James states prove his faith. Faith saves but faith without works is dead. All Christians should know this.

Jesus on the law.
Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Yes since JESUS IS Perfect,HE would not be brought Into captivity to the law of sin but sin would be condemned[sin would not be welcome but condemned]

Kind of petty my friend,but he should give you a simple yes or no If you need clarity and you aren't trying to set him up.

I just wanted a simple answer to the fact that in reality we are all sinners. Sin is defined as breaking the law. The law is in force and no one is able to keep it. Therefore we are all sinners needing the grace of God through faith in Jesus without which we are lost. He seems afraid of this simple truth with his verbose refusal to answer a simple question with a simple answer. Makes me wonder why!! That is why I asked for the simple answer.

You are not addressing the points of the post. We have been made free from the Law of Sin and Death. That my friend is an indicative fact. This was done so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us. That is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The Mood of possibilities; hence the word might. In other words it is possible for the righteousness of the law to be fulfilled to the uttermost in us through Christ. Whether it is happening in us or anyone for that matter is irrelevant; the possibility is there because GOD made it so through Christ.

Amen! Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works* (Romans 3:24-28).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).

Yet sadly, there are those who still insist on teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear.
We are not made free of the law. We all sin. Sin is transgression of the law! We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus since he paid the penalty of our sins as the Unblemished Lamb of God. Those not accepting this grace will be judged by the law at judgement time. Jesus will say begone I never knew you.

It's true that we all sin In the flesh and the Issue now Is about faith,whosoever will believe In the WORD of GOD but for those that have been born again of Incorruptible seed,our spirits HAVE been made Perfect and we are not under law,the law Is for those who are under the law merit system and of their own strength but those who have been reborn they are GODs workmanship created IN CHRIST unto good works.

CHRIST Is the VINE and we are the branches or members of the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from the VINE displaying spiritual fruit and establishing or showing the fruit of JESUS whom did fulfill the law.

All the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,love.

AMEN! We have been made free from the Law of Sin and Death. That my friend is an indicative fact. This was done so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us. That is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The Mood of possibilities; hence the word might. In other words it is possible for the righteousness of the law to be fulfilled to the uttermost in us through Christ. Whether it is happening in us or anyone for that matter is irrelevant; the possibility is there because GOD made it so through Christ.

And we been delivered from Written Code; the book of the Law and that to which was written on Tables of Stone. For the Word, HIS Commandments are now on our Heart, Mind , and Mouth through Christ. We are a new Creation in Christ Jesus. Old things have passed away; Behold all is new and of GOD!

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered (made free) from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. For Christ (in which the word is put in the heart and mouth) is the end of the (written) law (the Book of the Law and that which was on Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The Word (through Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:4-8)

Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. Are you calling him a liar? The definition of sin is breaking the law. We all sin therefore you and I are breaking the law!! What Christ accomplished with his crucifixion was giving us the grace in faith of Jesus to take away the penalty of sin from us. Those who reject this WILL BE JUDGED UNDER THE LAW!!

Romans 7 NIV law of sin in us
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Here is a writing about the difficulty of putting Hebrew meanings in the Greek language. In fact the New Testament is written in koine Judeo Greek because Jews modify the language to use Hebrew concepts. A modern language is Yiddish which is German modified for Judeo concepts.

Do Paul and James Disagree About “Faith”?
By Dr. Yeshaya Gruber
October 22, 2018

The question of “faith vs. works” has often baffled—and even enraged—biblical interpreters. Different Christian groups (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, etc.) proclaim different views, sometimes fighting with each other over the correct interpretation. All of them contrast their own position with the “old” Jewish way of thinking. So where does all this conflict and confusion come from?

An apparent contradiction lies at the root of the controversy. Saul/Paul of Tarsus writes, “For we hold that one is justified by faith (πίστις; pistis) apart from works of the Law” (Romans 3:28, ESV; cf. Rom 5:1; Gal 2:16, 3:11, 3:24). But then Jacob/James of Jerusalem says, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith (πίστις; pistis) alone” (2:24, ESV). Some Christian theologians take one side or the other in this “debate,” while others try to show that the apparent contradiction is not really a contradiction.

Yet for all the argument and discussion, one of the most important factors is often neglected completely. Both Jacob/James and Saul/Paul were actually first-century Jews who lived in a hybrid Hebrew-Greek environment. Like others in this situation, they struggled to express and discuss Hebrew ideas in the Greek language. Just before Jacob/James states that becoming “just” involves “works” rather than merely “faith alone,” he exclaims, “You foolish fellow, can’t you see that ‘faith’ apart from works is useless?!” (2:20). This outburst reflects the fact – difficult to convey in Greek – that the Hebrew word for “faith” (אמונה; emunah) means a lifestyle of steadfast reliability.

Saul/Paul was no less frustrated with his audience when it came to understanding the Jewish idea of “faith” – he even calls the Galatians “mindless” (Gal 3:1) with regard to this topic. In context, he was arguing that the way to be considered “just” is to live a lifestyle of steadfast reliability in the way of truth, and that this doesn’t depend on whether one is Jewish and follows the Torah of Moses, or is a Gentile and therefore not obliged to keep all the same commandments.

Both authors found themselves limited by the language they had to use. Each chose a different angle or tack in employing Greek words to express Hebrew/Jewish ideas. This created the impression of a major contradiction, one that would even cause religious schisms! Thankfully, today we have many tools for understanding the original Jewish-Greek context and decoding the deep meanings of such ancient letters.

Our magnificent God created out earth and us to operate with absolute order and we are told something of that order when we were given law. You keep saying that order has been done away with, and we do not need to learn it to be led by the Lord.

I lived on the ocean for seven years and could observe the order of the tides. Nothing interferes with tides, in the same way nothing interferes with God's law.

Paul got pretty hot under the collar with the people who interpreted the laws legalistically and thought the rituals leading people to law was the law. Paul even said the law of Moses was over, but if you read further Paul said about lawlessness "heaven forbid". People of Paul's time used "law of Moses" to express the rules the rabbis had for people wanting to join the synagogue. Rabbi's said they had to becomes Jews to join. Paul also went to extremes about people who thought the law gave salvation, but Paul never said we should never listen to God's guidance by law.

The Greeks had a completely different culture than the Hebrews and the language reflects that. It is impossible to completely give God's thoughts in Greek.

Almost the entire OT was written in Hebrew, giving what our creator God is like. Every author of the NT grew up in homes with Hebrew influence and thought in the Hebrew way, even if they wrote in Greek. It is the difference between Hellenistic and Hebrew thought. The Hebrew scholars of the time looked down on Hebrews who moved from Jerusalem and accepted Hellenistic thought.

The part of the Old Testament that is not written in Hebrew is written in Aramaic which is a close cousin to Hebrew. It was a common language in the area of north Israel and north of Israel going up past Tyre.

No however the ministration has change.
Forasmuch as we are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ... written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (the Book of the Law and the Tables of Stone) , but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-9 KJV)

Search the scriptures (the Bible; Book of the Law); for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify (tell) of me.
(Joh 5:39 KJV)

The Scripture prophesied of HIS coming and showed what manner (Spirit) HE would exhibit. They and HE testify what Life is. But we can only have this LIFE through, IN and by HIM. NOT THE HOLY WRIT. That which was written on Parchment; the Book of the Law and on Tables of Stone.

For Christ (in which the word is put in the heart and mouth) is the end of the (written) law (the Book of the Law and that which was on Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The Word (through Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:4-8)

The above Christ through Paul paraphrased Deut. 30:11-14 purposefully. He new that they were familiar with the text and would look at it to see the parallels Paul through Christ have formed. And that would be that those things pertaining to righteousness contained in the Book of the Law and the Tables of Stone are now in our hearts and mouths through Christ.

Here look....If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law (word), and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law; the word), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law; the word) unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Through Christ because HE is in the heart and mouth and this the Faith in which we preach.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

These words GOD had spoke in Deut were available then. But due to the stiff necked hard hearts of the Majority most refused HIS Spirit and rebelled in the wilderness. So that is why GOD spoke of it again as a Prophecy in Jeremiah 31. It is just worded different but it is speaking the same Spirit.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

The Law is now in the heart, mind, and mouth through Christ in the Heart. This is the Faith in which we preach and the Spirit and Truth in which enables us to worship HIM who wishes us to worship (LIVE) in Spirit and Truth; Christ.

but, we are to fulfill the righteous intent of the Law, not keep the letter.

the letter kills, the Sprit gives life.

see, when one accepts Christ, then the Holy Sprit comes to live inside . when that happens, a person will consistently manifest the fruits of the Sprit, against which there is no Law.

now, let's see, what is not listed as a fruit of the Sprit...... oh yeah, Sabbath keeping.

so, no Sabbath keeping required for believers.

I haven't said any such thing.

I said the law was fulfilled and we aren't under it anymore. The Old Covenant was fulfilled so we could be under a New Covenant.

The Old Covenant was broken and could not be fulfilled by individuals.

The New Covenant cannot be broken because God upholds both sides of it by His Grace and Goodness.


Paul used "law of Moses" to mean the Old Covenant and the Old way of following law. Which would be to read the law and try to follow it in your in own understanding.

Being under the New Covenant doesn't mean a breaking of the Old Covenant law. It just means a breaking of the carnal understanding of that law.

We are under the Spirit and not under the Letter. We are GIVEN Rest and not commanded to rest on a certain day.

We are given blessing and Righteousness as a Gift and not commanded to achieve blessing and righteousness by the law. (in the New Covenant)



Being under the law and trying to work at the law is like trying to control the tide. Only God can control it. Everything you do to control the tide is only your imagination and extreme ego working together to fool you.