Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Because I said, God is able to make us perfect, And Yes He is able to make us not sin, and That God said one who abides in him does not sin. you say my pride offends you, I present the word of God, as it is, and you call it pride, and you say it offends you.

Because I believe God’s word you say my Pride offends you..

Because I said I’m a believer.
Your pride offends me because you think you are better than you are. You water down Gods laws to suit your understanding, and refuse to submit to Gods perfect standard. Because if you did, you would not make such bold claims about being sinless

Of course God can make you something you are not. But he will not force it on you.

Even paul could make the standard you think you made.

Again, You will get a rude awakening one day.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Guy, you've got nearly four thousand pages hoping to prove it isn't easy at all.

Everybody wants God to comport to the image and likeness they can get along with. Some people have the temerity to think they have to help God fulfill his promise.
In the end we could all be wrong and God sits there at our judgment asking one question before letting us in to a members only gated community. What did you learn?
Yeah, I do not know about that......maybe 4000 pages directed at the simplicity found in Christ.....faith it what saves a man and anything/everything beyond that is the results of, not for or to keep!
 
Dec 6, 2018
46
25
18
No one has perfect faith.

Thats why no one can be sinless

And PS it is different having faiht in God for salvation, and trusting each and every thing he wants us to do.
Now I see, for it is evident, and sure I know it will always manifest, for the word of God is always a conqueror..

Now you bring in your own words, to challenge the words of Christ. These are your words, to challenge the words of christ. Well as you might now know, I have presented the word of God.

For the Word of God is True, it standeth Sure!!
 
Dec 6, 2018
46
25
18
Your pride offends me because you think you are better than you are. You water down Gods laws to suit your understanding, and refuse to submit to Gods perfect standard. Because if you did, you would not make such bold claims about being sinless

Of course God can make you something you are not. But he will not force it on you.

Even paul could make the standard you think you made.

Again, You will get a rude awakening one day.
God is witness, that you accuse me falsely.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
I don't understand this. I seriously don't.

Why is it so difficult for some Christians to accept that salvation is a gift that cannot to earned or maintained by our works? To do so destroys the very notion it is a gift.

To say one "must" or "will" do good works after salvation to somehow "prove" one is really saved is adding to the simple gospel message of only "believe".

No one has ever been able to give a concrete answer as to how many good works are required to "show" one is truly saved. For some, a few good works are fine as long as there is a "patten" of growth. For others, it's constant toil from sunup until sundown, while begging God for forgiveness for the slightest infraction.

Begging forgiveness for sins that have already been forgiven over 2,000 years ago!

No one has to prove anything. If one, at an instant in time, believed the offer from Jesus to grant eternal life to anyone who would take Him at His word in faith, they are saved from that moment forever, and can never be lost.

No matter what they do afterward.

Once again, no matter what they do afterward.

And yes, I'm one of those Christians who believe you don't have to promise to stop sinning, you don't have to read the Bible, you don't have to go to church or even share the gospel to "stay" or "prove" you're saved. God doesn't destroy a person's free will after they become Christians. They can still choose to sin - and do - every single day, and remain just as saved, just as righteous, and just as holy as the most devout Christian that ever walked the earth.

How?

Because we have imputed righteousness, holiness, and sinlessness from Jesus Himself - as His gift - with no strings attached.

Yet, our desires do change. We don't look at sin the way we did when we were unsaved. We have the yearning to live as we ought, but acting or not acting on those desires doesn't change our citizenship in heaven.

Jesus promised - and that's good enough for me.
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION...
2 Thessalonians 1:8-11

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
God is witness, that you accuse me falsely.

So do you CLAIM TO BE SINLESS? If so this message is for you.

I can prove you are a Sinner:

1 Peter 2:13-15 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--


Speed Limits are an ORDINANCE OF MAN:


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . ORDINANCE NO. 2003-07

AN ORDINANCE ALTERING THE PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS ESTABLISHED FOR VEHICLES UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF §545.356, TEXAS TRANSPORTATION CODE, UPON THE BASIS OF AN ENGINEERING AND TRAFFIC INVESTIGATION, UPON CERTAIN STREETS AND HIGHWAYS, OR PARTS THEREOF, WITHIN THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF THE CITY OF TOMBALL, AS SET OUT IN THIS ORDINANCE; AND PROVIDING A PENALTY OF A FINE IN AN AMOUNT NOT LESS THAN ONE DOLLAR ($1.00) OR MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS ($200.00) FOR THE VIOLATION OF THIS ORDINANCE. * * * * * * * * * * *




YOU HAVE JUST SINNED AGAINST GOD'S WILL, by Violating the SPEED LIMIT ORDINANCE.

So How Many Other City and County Ordinances, do you routinely Violate?



1544477933185.jpeg 1544477957440.jpeg 1544478346668.jpeg

1544478519100.jpeg


Shall I go ON?
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
More drivel from Seoche!!!!
...“He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.” Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him. Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:40-50
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
And there is me thinking that God wanted a relationship with us so we can call him Abba Father.

A relationship where we respond to his calling to be like Jesus.

Loving the outcast, the sinners, the rejected, the poor man, the prostitutes, the marginalised, the guy who you see begging on the street pissed as a fart who you sit next to and talk to and he pukes all over you but you hold him in your arms whilst he is crying.

You know the nitty gritty things of life.
You sit in the shit bin of life with them rather than look in the bin and say "Walk out of it" You sit in it with him and walk out of it with him.

All these things I do and will continue to do.
I don't mind being puked on whilst hugging someone and stroking their head.

I don't mind being told to stick my Jesus up my effing arse because you lot condemn me because I'm an alcoholic, a smoker a gambler.

You tossposts have no interest in me as a person, you just tick a box and go on your merry way.

Very sad to lay heavy burdens on people rather than love then where they are at in order to show then Jesus.

The Jesus who will set them free from oppression and heavy burdens that society and so called bleivers place on them, the chains that need broken.

Not broken by obedience but as a result of love.

Maybe the guy who puked over me will one day or the guy who pissed on me or the lady who offered me sexual favours for money to get a night in a homeless shelter will see the love of Jesus who accepts them as they are will one day walk the streets and come alongside those who are like they were.

Is that the Jesus you follow?
That's my Jesus who I follow.
There were many drunkards and poor people in Christ's time that He had the power to help, but didn't.

Your post is the perfect example of the defense of those in Matt. 7:23.

I might remind you it isn't a sin to drink or gamble. A man might be consumed with these things which can cause sin, but these things are not sin.

Creating images of God in the likeness of man is sin. Rejecting God's Sabbath is sin. Creating your own "Feasts unto the Lord" is sin.

So while your "works" of feeding random poor people in Christ's Name surely looks righteous, and surly causes you to receive the praise of man, if a person practices "Lawlessness" Jesus doesn't know you. His Word's not mine. Isn't this exactly what Jesus was speaking to in Matt. 7?


Matt. 26:
8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

If Jesus doesn't know us, then all the poor addicted homeless folks we help in His name is meaningless. All righteous works of your own. And if you are furthering a religion which "calls Him Lord, Lord", but transgresses the Commandments of God by your own religious traditions, then you are condemning this person to a fate worse than addiction or poverty.

Jesus had the power to feed all the poor and lepers and homeless in His Time, but He didn't. He has the power to give everyone His Grace, but He doesn't. If you don't know why, then I implore you to seek the answer. Not from religious man, but from the Author of my Faith.

Luke 4:
25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

Maybe it is more important to obey the Word's of the Christ and follow His Righteousness, than it is to tout your own "good" works. Maybe you can then be directed by a God that knows you, to further His Righteousness to those HE has called, and not your own righteousness given to random poor folks.

Matt. 10:
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I say these things not to anger you, but as the Christ did to those who created their own Righteousness in His Time, to shake you a little so can see the Elephant in the room, and humble yourself under the Mighty Hand of God.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Because I said, God is able to make us perfect, And Yes He is able to make us not sin, and That God said one who abides in him does not sin. you say my pride offends you, I present the word of God, as it is, and you call it pride, and you say it offends you.

Because I believe God’s word you say my Pride offends you..

Because I said I’m a believer.
Get used to it my friend. Cain was offended as well.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
It is you who promote a religion which rejects God's Sabbath in favor of a pagan High day some sun worshipper placed His name on some 350 years after He rose from the dead.

It is you who promote a religion which rejects the Feast's of the Christ, His Holy Days which set out His Salvation plan, in favor of more pagan High Days that man placed the Holy Name of the Christ on.
Spiritual abuse is the worst kind of abuse, it goes to the core of our relationship with the Father. Stop blaming other people for the damage that was done to you; this is exactly the fault of the Pharisee's they were always condemning others except themselves. Stop the abuse beginning with you.

I am not your enemy.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Spiritual abuse is the worst kind of abuse, it goes to the core of our relationship with the Father. Stop blaming other people for the damage that was done to you; this is exactly the fault of the Pharisee's they were always condemning others except themselves. Stop the abuse beginning with you.

I am not your enemy.
No, but by doctrine it seems rather obvious who the enemies of Christ are.....any and all that embellish the gospel with the drivel he peddles = a false dogma and error.....!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
More drivel and false accusations by the Catholic Seoche!!!!!
More drivel and false accusations by the Catholic Seoche!!!!!
Jesua said, " I know that HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE."

His command from the beginning is to LOVE GOD and to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

How do we love God and one another?


... Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 1 John 5:2-3,1

...It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. MANY DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:4-11
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
No, but by doctrine it seems rather obvious who the enemies of Christ are.....any and all that embellish the gospel with the drivel he peddles = a false dogma and error.....!
Yes Studyman is a very strong enemy of Christ and the Gospel of our salvation, no doubt he will lead some naive people astray and I have admonished Studyman he will die in his sins' unless he repents. What confounds me and I'm sure others on this forum is; why is he allowed to spread his lies for so long on an International Christian website, he should be banned as of yesterday.

Thanks for your correction decon because I'm not usually so sympathetic.