Speaking in tongues

Right. So stop it with this sign gifts stuff.

I try not to. I prefer to sneak up on my victims

Way to get your priorities all mixed up. Salvation is the most essential thing not gifts that are clearly abused when they become superior to adoration of the Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Evading is not reconciliation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The gift of verse 4, 5 & 6. Not the gift you imagine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes. Like leaving a calling card.
I refer to it as an SBD. (silent but deadly)

never said it was you make up thing as you go.

Who is claiming that gifts are more important than salvation? (no one)

Relevance?

Sketch,
Just want to say that I've appreciated your posts as I started reading some recent pages. They're very insightful, and you seem able to avoid any personal jabs. Kudos.
-Kelby

Thanks.
I'm not sure what the rules are, so I play in the middle of the playground.
The other kids play right up to the fence. -- lol

I appreciate the observations.
I didn't realize I was playing nice. No need to be nasty, I guess.
With encouragement like that I may keep up the good work.
Your post means a lot. Thank you for reaching out.

Those are great points.
It should also be noted that the list makes a distinction between prophets, pastors and teachers. (separate offices)
Cessationists argue that prophecy means preaching now. That position disagrees with Eph.11.
Which is what you were saying. And I agree. Thanks.

Ephesians 4:11-13
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

He seems to be stuck on this idea that we are promoting extrabilical revelation.
Which is a complete misrepresentation of the Holy Spirit manifestation of prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:3
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

1 Corinthians 14:29-32
Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.

That's the point they seem to miss in I Cor.13. -- lol

Where's the love in Cessationism?

I tried to introduce some discussion about the NT pattern of two baptisms. No takers.

In the book of the Acts we see a pattern of two baptisms:
1) Water baptism (followed by)
2) The baptism with the Holy Spirit. (typically administered by the laying on of hands)
Not necessarily in that order, or with the laying on of hands. See Cornelius and Pentecost.

Here below is the key text from my perspective.
- What were the new believers missing?
- How did they know it was missing?
- What was the needed solution?
- How was it administered?
- How did they know the believers had received it? (what evidence?)

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Addendum to previous post.

Obviously the Cessatioists will argue that there is no mention of tongues and that this could only be administered by the original Apostles of whom they are no more. However as we read on we see this refuted.

- What did Simon see as evidence?
- What reason did Peter give for Simon not being able to have this ability?
- Was it because he wasn't an Apostle? Or some other reason?

Acts 8:18-24
When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” 24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”

No you just infer that tongues are important. Out of the mouth come the issues of the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Truth and glory to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi I would offer.

The perfect is debatable. it not as clear as what the sign of tongues represents or what it confirms. I suggest there are no laws missing in the book of the law, the Bible by which we could known God more adequately . No parts missing. Yet many say much is missing, the skies the limit have a experience etc. In the end the last chapter called a book Revelation remains the perfect. With the same warning of things being sealed till the end of time

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.1 Corinthians13:9-10

What part missing? A noise (prophecy) without meaning? or is that what the sign is against, confirming unbelief?

Yet for all that they still will not hear me Christ said. For all what other than prophecy I would ask?

Experience is not the validator of the unseen spiritual things .Prophecy (as it is written) alone is . Christ proved that in Mathew 4.

Today from my experiences it would seem to be the new age old age (from the garden of Eden) looking for an opportunity to make a appearance and draw men away from faith.


Like the question asks in Luke . When Christ comes in Spirit on the last day will he find faith or men with the experience of the imaginations of their own hearts as Genesis 6 typified as evil all the time (no faith) . Jesus says it is an evil generation that does seek after the things seen the temporal and not the eternal things not seen, the faith principle, called the law of faith

But if we look to the law pertaining to the sign usage through the scriptures as to how it apposes prophecy (walking by faith) we can decide what was the purpose of the sign what and it confirms, then looking at the perfect gives us a beginning place.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore "tongues" are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians

Why turn things upside down and walk by sight as if a our struggle was against flesh and blood the things seen???if its not against flesh and blood then flesh and blood cannot be a tool for defending the faith of Christ which does defend us.

Seems clear to me what is confirms. Looking to foundation of tongues in Isiah 28 gives us the reason why. Why those who seek after a signs and wonders gospel avoiding to look at the foundation seems to indicate something?

According to the law in respect to the "sign of tongues" and not the outcome of tongue "prophecy " as two different things .One blesses the other show a curse what does the sign confirm and who is the sign in respect to?

Signs appose faith that alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures. Jesus says it a evil generation that does seek after one but none were given but the sign of Jonas which has been fulfilled . Why seek after one before one will believe. Is experiencing a work we perform the new gospel? Or do all die not receiving the promise so we continue to walk by faith till the end.( Hebrews 11:38)

Again no one said prophecy in respect to the whole bible has ceased and neither has the sign against those who refuse to believe God . it is still a sign against those who will not believe prophecy but will do whatsoever their own mouth says . God mocking the Jew who mocked him by bringing new revelation in other languages of other nations.

The possibility of adding to the scriptures with some idea that tongues confirm a person believes God shows they turn things upside down and take away the understanding what the sign represents.

also grace is a gift Salvation is a gift you should know that. Bible 101