Leviticus 19:34 and the Baby Jesus

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newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
28
#1
How inappropriate indeed that at this time of year, the issue of people wanting to come into the U.S. has certain groups and the U.S. leadership in a tizzy, fighting over a wall and who can enter the U.S. The hostility toward strangers outside of the U.S. is breathtaking.

So, amidst Christmas cheer and the giving of presents to eachother, may I enlighten or remind you of the time when Jesus was just born, since, in light of the immigration conflicts we see, it is more than appropriate.

First off, God in Leviticus 19:34 says, “You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” Fast forward to Matthew 2 which tells of the three wise men who visit the baby Jesus and his family in Bethlehem and bear gifts, knowing that Jesus will become the king of the Jews as prophesied in Micah 5:2 which says

“And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.”

When the three wise men left, Joseph the family patriarch has a dream described in Matthew 2:13 in which “an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, ‘Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.’” And so, as it says in Matthew 2:14-15, “And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt AND REMAINED THERE until the death of Herod.” In modern terms, the family sought sanctuary in Egypt because they were under a threat by a despotic ruler of the country they were in. Sound familiar?

After Herod dies, Joseph in Matthew 2: 21, “…rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel.”

Did Egypt deport them? Did it fear that Joseph might be a criminal? Also, it should be noted that the world at that time had its share of enemies just like we have.

Did it incarcerate them for going in the land of Egypt? No. The Bible makes clear that the family came and went as they pleased. It is interesting that the family goes to Egypt, the very land that triggered Leviticus 19:34, which refers to when Jacob’s family was allowed by Egypt to settle there because of the famine which affected where they lived. Even more interesting, Egypt was once again accommodating!

What if Egypt deported the family with baby Jesus? It is probable that King Herod would have killed him, since he saw him as a threat. What if Egypt incarcerated the family so they couldn’t leave? Would the world know of him later? But that didn’t happen.

And as the Bible says in Hebrews 13:2 to “…not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares,” and as Jesus is no less than the angels, we should at least be careful that we do not turn people away without cause.

And regarding Leviticus 19:34, which is one of many Laws given by God in the Old Testament, the fully grown Jesus said he did not come to change the Law, but to fulfill it. So, he simplified the Law, condensing it into two commandments, with the second one being we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Who is our neighbor? According to Jesus’ Parable of the Good Samaritan, our neighbor is someone who can help us. I tell you that that could be said about most people. Countries in which people go, at least to seek sanctuary, should be mindful that most people do not intend to go to their country to do harm, but are willing to be neighbors, and some of them, unknowingly, could even turn out to be angels in their own way at least.

Wishing all a Merry Christmas.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
13,120
113
#2
Fast forward to Matthew 2 which tells of the three wise men who visit the baby Jesus and his family in Bethlehem and bear gifts
the account never actually says 'three'

**
mandela effect**
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#3
Bones shines light on facts

**candelabra effect**
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#4
I am all for treating the stranger as one that is born in the land, taking that the stranger already lives in the U.S.

But going across the border illegally is breaking and entering, and I do not think Russia would play that game, as well as other nations.

And also hasn't America done enough, for eventually you have to stop allowing immigrants in the country, for there will not be enough jobs for them, and many born in the country, and a citizen will lack as they take jobs from them, who seem by all rights should have them first.

And when we are overpopulated like a big dog, and we still allow them to come in to the country, is the government going to have to take care of them, and will they tax the people for it, and the people have to take care of them while they have their own family to support.

Which I am not saying that it is not nice to help people by way of taxes, but keep letting them in indefinitely, and it will be quite a problem in the future.

Eventually the country is going to have to say, enough is enough.

And will the world be mad after all America did for them by way of letting them in, and doing business with the world if they stop doing business with the world, and out sourcing jobs for them to ship products to America, and care about America, and let the rest of the world take care of themselves, and stop losing troops, weapons, and money, going to war for them to stop conflicts.

But the world will be mad as if America cannot do what she wants.

But America will do it for they want to show the world that all ethnic groups, and religions, can get along despite their differences, in the hope the nations will come together to try to establish peace on earth, for it is part of the plan.

But a lot of the world does not know the plan.

They want immigration to get out of hand, they want there to be a big debt concerning America, they want there to be trouble, and problems in America, that way they collapse, and cannot work in the world as they once did, which will cause the world to come together to continue on with the peace plan of America.

And then the world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, Canada, United States, Mexico, super nation number 1, solves that problem.

But they have it planned out for the 10 horn kingdom to collapse, so the beast kingdom can come about as they turn to the New Age Christ as the solution for the world.

On the back of the dollar bill, announcing the conception of a new order of the ages, and out of many, one, and it is soon to come about.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#5
On the back of the dollar bill, announcing the conception of a new order of the ages, and out of many, one, and it is soon to come about.
So you found where it says it on the back of the bill, 'Feed my sheep' ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,872
113
#6
How inappropriate indeed that at this time of year, the issue of people wanting to come into the U.S. has certain groups and the U.S. leadership in a tizzy, fighting over a wall and who can enter the U.S. The hostility toward strangers outside of the U.S. is breathtaking.
This is about as ignorant and ill-informed a statement as a Christian can make.

So let's put this another way:

DO GOD AND CHRIST ENCOURAGE LAWLESSNESS OR NOT?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,872
113
#7
What if Egypt deported the family with baby Jesus?
Christ was in Egypt legally and lawfully.

So we have another nonsensical question to deal with. Do you know how many hoops people have to pass through to enter the USA LEGALLY? And here you are trying to promote an ILLEGAL MIGRANT INVASION. Satan loves it when Christians don't understand right from wrong.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
534
259
63
#8
How inappropriate indeed that at this time of year, the issue of people wanting to come into the U.S. has certain groups and the U.S. leadership in a tizzy, fighting over a wall and who can enter the U.S. The hostility toward strangers outside of the U.S. is breathtaking.

So, amidst Christmas cheer and the giving of presents to eachother, may I enlighten or remind you of the time when Jesus was just born, since, in light of the immigration conflicts we see, it is more than appropriate.

First off, God in Leviticus 19:34 says, “You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” Fast forward to Matthew 2 which tells of the three wise men who visit the baby Jesus and his family in Bethlehem and bear gifts, knowing that Jesus will become the king of the Jews as prophesied in Micah 5:2 which says

“And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.”

When the three wise men left, Joseph the family patriarch has a dream described in Matthew 2:13 in which “an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, ‘Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.’” And so, as it says in Matthew 2:14-15, “And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt AND REMAINED THERE until the death of Herod.” In modern terms, the family sought sanctuary in Egypt because they were under a threat by a despotic ruler of the country they were in. Sound familiar?

After Herod dies, Joseph in Matthew 2: 21, “…rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel.”

Did Egypt deport them? Did it fear that Joseph might be a criminal? Also, it should be noted that the world at that time had its share of enemies just like we have.

Did it incarcerate them for going in the land of Egypt? No. The Bible makes clear that the family came and went as they pleased. It is interesting that the family goes to Egypt, the very land that triggered Leviticus 19:34, which refers to when Jacob’s family was allowed by Egypt to settle there because of the famine which affected where they lived. Even more interesting, Egypt was once again accommodating!

What if Egypt deported the family with baby Jesus? It is probable that King Herod would have killed him, since he saw him as a threat. What if Egypt incarcerated the family so they couldn’t leave? Would the world know of him later? But that didn’t happen.

And as the Bible says in Hebrews 13:2 to “…not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares,” and as Jesus is no less than the angels, we should at least be careful that we do not turn people away without cause.

And regarding Leviticus 19:34, which is one of many Laws given by God in the Old Testament, the fully grown Jesus said he did not come to change the Law, but to fulfill it. So, he simplified the Law, condensing it into two commandments, with the second one being we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Who is our neighbor? According to Jesus’ Parable of the Good Samaritan, our neighbor is someone who can help us. I tell you that that could be said about most people. Countries in which people go, at least to seek sanctuary, should be mindful that most people do not intend to go to their country to do harm, but are willing to be neighbors, and some of them, unknowingly, could even turn out to be angels in their own way at least.

Wishing all a Merry Christmas.
The issue is whether they are entering the U.S. legally or not.
The sojourning stranger in Leviticus 19:34 dwelt there legally was bound to the laws of Israel.
The children of Israel were in Egypt legally and were subject to their laws.
Where does the Bible hint that Joseph, Mary, & Jesus entered Egypt illegally?
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
28
#9
Christ was in Egypt legally and lawfully.

So we have another nonsensical question to deal with. Do you know how many hoops people have to pass through to enter the USA LEGALLY? And here you are trying to promote an ILLEGAL MIGRANT INVASION. Satan loves it when Christians don't understand right from wrong.
How many hoops did Joseph and his family, including the baby Jesus, have to pass through before being allowed to enter Egypt?
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
28
#10
This is about as ignorant and ill-informed a statement as a Christian can make.

So let's put this another way:

DO GOD AND CHRIST ENCOURAGE LAWLESSNESS OR NOT?
God and Christ only stand for loving God with all our heart, soul and mind, and loving our neighbor as we love ourselves. Any lauthority that God gives a government is predicated on those two commandments. The law, then, should only serve to facilitate abiding by those two commandments. If the government uses it for anything else, they stand to lose any authority God has given them.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,082
1,749
113
#11
the account never actually says 'three'

**mandela effect**
I assume you are joking about the Mandela effect. I think some Youtubers may be demikianlah decieved into thinking their consciousnesd drifted to a reality where the Bible was different.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,333
7,238
113
#12
the account never actually says 'three'

**mandela effect**
More likely a contingent of perhaps hundreds armed cavalry who are escorting the Persian king-makers with their retinue. The despotic Herod and all of Jerusalem were alarmed. Herod treats them with kid gloves.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
13,120
113
#13
More likely a contingent of perhaps hundreds armed cavalry who are escorting the Persian king-makers with their retinue. The despotic Herod and all of Jerusalem were alarmed. Herod treats them with kid gloves.
IMO at least one, or one group, came from China. am not sold on the 'they're all Babylonian sages after the tradition of Daniel, probably even half-Jews' interpretation.

but yes, they would not have traveled in a small group. such a journey by probably wealthy people of no small importance would likely have been by some kind of caravan, involving guards, servants and hired laborers.

seeing that Herod ordered male children up to the age of 2, on the basis of information he got from the magi, i infer that their journey took well over a year, granting some months to have come to a realization of the meaning of the sign they saw in the heavens, to confer among themselves, and to make preparations.

i imagine ((and it's pure speculation)) Chinese, Babylonian, maybe Indian astronomers witnessing the event, each with different insights into it, meeting each other, coming to an excited conclusion, and setting out together as soon as they could to worship the King of Heaven and Earth -- without any more delay than what was absolutely necessary. maybe from the far east, a group meets peers in Babylon, puts information together with them, and heads to Israel. if they're all coming from Persia, why does this take any more than 6 months? but Herod murders every boy he can find up to 2 years old. something made it take this long before the magi could arrive, and distance to be traveled would explain that handily.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,817
25,994
113
#14
There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.



 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,333
7,238
113
#15
Interesting. Perhaps you could support your case with historical accounts of communication between these far flung groups?

I hold to the strictly Persian interpretation for the time being.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#16
There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.
How many times people read the law then ignore it saying Jesus has fulfilled it?

The laws on good behavior, good morals, will never be missing from the great laws of love……. Praise God always, especially in heeding His Word, amen.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
13,120
113
#17
Interesting. Perhaps you could support your case with historical accounts of communication between these far flung groups?

I hold to the strictly Persian interpretation for the time being.
it's as easy as looking at wiki to discover that there was trade and communication between the Persian & Chinese regions at least 100 BC -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Persian_relations
the silk road existed as far back as the Han dynasty, 200+ BC


written, detailed Chinese history goes back ~ 5,000 years, and shows a rich tradition of astronomical observation. ancient China was also monotheistic, and held wisdom in high cultural value. without going into any serious historical poking around ((definitely not post's forte)) there's ample reason to presume that in addition to goods, knowledge and philosophy was transmitted between the east and the west. it's plausible that the lore and prophecies of Daniel, who was very great in Babylonian mystical & sagacious society, could have made its way to China - there's motive & opportunity in the shared cultural value of concern for heavenly things and astronomy between Babylon/Persia & China, and the existence of the silk road.

the biggest factor for me in coming to the conclusion that some of the magi could have been Chinese is as i previously intimated, the time factor - i think Herod's '2 years old' decision gives us a pretty good idea of how long it was between observation of the sign in the heavens and the magi's arrival in Judea, and it's hard for me to imagine why a trip from Babylon to Jerusalem would take that long at that time, with well established routes and probably persons of means being involved.

someone ((sorry i can't remember who offhand :()) shared a video of a sermon teaching about links between Chinese writing and the Bible not too long ago, which i found absolutely fascinating -- and which corroborates some of my thinking about this. in the sermon, the teacher muses that knowledge of the truth about creation would have come from descendancy through Noah to the founders of the Chinese race & empires, which makes sense, but it doesn't exclude the sharing of wisdom & knowledge from the Levant with the East through other means.

it's a couple hours to watch both of these, if you have the time, but even without it's relationship to what we're discussing here, i really really really recommend having a listen to the information in these videos; i think you especially would enjoy them:

God in ancient China part 1:

part 2:

there's some weird pseudo-prosperity-gospel stuff at the end of part 2, especially, but set that aside and take in the information this guy's presenting. :)
he does mention both prophecy and astronomical observation of signs in the heavens, in ancient Chinese records that corroborates the birth of Christ -- IIRC that's in part 2 -- but i encourage you to watch both, so you have the context of part 1 to see what he is saying in part 2.


i already had the possibly-Chinese-view before i saw these, and they reinforced it for me, and present information much better than i could.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,333
7,238
113
#18
it's as easy as looking at wiki to discover that there was trade and communication between the Persian & Chinese regions at least 100 BC -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Persian_relations
the silk road existed as far back as the Han dynasty, 200+ BC


written, detailed Chinese history goes back ~ 5,000 years, and shows a rich tradition of astronomical observation. ancient China was also monotheistic, and held wisdom in high cultural value. without going into any serious historical poking around ((definitely not post's forte)) there's ample reason to presume that in addition to goods, knowledge and philosophy was transmitted between the east and the west. it's plausible that the lore and prophecies of Daniel, who was very great in Babylonian mystical & sagacious society, could have made its way to China - there's motive & opportunity in the shared cultural value of concern for heavenly things and astronomy between Babylon/Persia & China, and the existence of the silk road.

the biggest factor for me in coming to the conclusion that some of the magi could have been Chinese is as i previously intimated, the time factor - i think Herod's '2 years old' decision gives us a pretty good idea of how long it was between observation of the sign in the heavens and the magi's arrival in Judea, and it's hard for me to imagine why a trip from Babylon to Jerusalem would take that long at that time, with well established routes and probably persons of means being involved.

someone ((sorry i can't remember who offhand :()) shared a video of a sermon teaching about links between Chinese writing and the Bible not too long ago, which i found absolutely fascinating -- and which corroborates some of my thinking about this. in the sermon, the teacher muses that knowledge of the truth about creation would have come from descendancy through Noah to the founders of the Chinese race & empires, which makes sense, but it doesn't exclude the sharing of wisdom & knowledge from the Levant with the East through other means.

it's a couple hours to watch both of these, if you have the time, but even without it's relationship to what we're discussing here, i really really really recommend having a listen to the information in these videos; i think you especially would enjoy them:

God in ancient China part 1:

part 2:

there's some weird pseudo-prosperity-gospel stuff at the end of part 2, especially, but set that aside and take in the information this guy's presenting. :)
he does mention both prophecy and astronomical observation of signs in the heavens, in ancient Chinese records that corroborates the birth of Christ -- IIRC that's in part 2 -- but i encourage you to watch both, so you have the context of part 1 to see what he is saying in part 2.


i already had the possibly-Chinese-view before i saw these, and they reinforced it for me, and present information much better than i could.
Thank you. Yes I have been exposed to these theories, and I think that there is some credence to their assertions. But little in the way of proof regarding the Magi.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
13,120
113
#19
Thank you. Yes I have been exposed to these theories, and I think that there is some credence to their assertions. But little in the way of proof regarding the Magi.
yeah, just corroborating evidence, not proof.

like i said really for me it's trying to imagine why it would be ~ 2 years to get there from Babylon vs. why it would be ~ 2 years if some parties were coming from China. Ezra probably made the trip in ~ 4 months in a similarly-funded way.

hope you can find time to watch the videos, not because of his preaching, because there are objectionable and questionable things he says, but because of the information he shares
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
13,120
113
#20
Ezra probably made the trip in ~ 4 months in a similarly-funded way.
justifying this statement:

Ezra arrived in Jerusalem in the fifth month of the seventh year of the king. He had begun his journey from Babylon on the first day of the first month, and he arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month, for the gracious hand of his God was on him. For Ezra had devoted himself to the study and observance of the Law of the Lord, and to teaching its decrees and laws in Israel.
(Ezra 7:8-10)

4 months travel time to Jerusalem from Babylon, funded by the empire, perhaps in a slow-moving caravan, bringing women & children & chattel. a smaller group of mostly adult men may have been able to move faster, tho we could maybe make some inference from 'the gracious hand' of God being on him regarding the speed of the journey ;) -- or maybe that clause only refers to the fact he went with the blessing of the Persian throne