Praying for the Unsaved

They also would benefit from reading the Old Testament also and that is the Word of God also. Jesus even read from it in the synagogue. We can't really do anything at all but only by the grace of God which accomplishes all.

Why would you say that?? Just wondering what you thought! 😋

I don't believe in universalism or would even tell someone that this type of teaching is spiritually correct, my hope is only that my prayer of salvation for all is aligned with God's will and desire. I have no idea if it actually is but will find out one day. It would be sad for me in heaven knowing that there was even one person who was forever lost and separated from the love of God for all eternity. It mentions in the bible that there will be no more tears yet there would be tears in my eyes for the lost. Perhaps there is some sort of contradiction here. Of course, God can just simply blot my memory and erased all my thoughts but to me that seems like a lie and would be out of God's character to do so.

Peter told Simon to repent and pray. Peter didn't need to repent.
Simon believed the gospel. He obeyed it.

Like I said near the beginning, I could find neither example or admonishion to pray for the lost in specific individual cases. There has been some good points made and some clarification to the issue, but I think it's not an issue to break fellowship with others over lol.

Right. Did I say Peter needed to repent in that scenario?

I thought that's what you were saying.
Isn't that an example of someone being told to pray for the lost?
Even though it's for one's self

Steven prayed for Saul (Acts 7:60) when he said "lay not this sin to their charge". Of course the prayer was for others as well, but Saul was the ringleader of the stoning. This prayer (and probably others by the church) did bring about Saul's conversion. But Saul was not forced to become a Christian, but the Lord sure did some mighty things to help persuade him!

So, a salvation prayer does not negate the free will of man. God wills that all should be saved, but has limited himself and wants us to witness, to pray, and to go to the ends of the Earth to tell and persuade others.

Could be, but do you think he already was saved?...

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. (Acts 8:13 KJV)

I believe Simon is saved, veses 12-13.
Then he is in wickedness in v.22. And so he is told to pray for himself.

Calvinists are known for saying and praying for more than that, especially since no one knows who God's elect are until they come to faith.

Ok, so that wouldn't be for salvation?

Yes, I am aware of both camps and I am also aware of in the Calvinistic camp for example, there are borderline Arminians on one end of the spectrum and ultra hyper Calvinists on the other (the latter refusing to pray for the unsaved).

is your leaning more towards finding out who is Arminian or Calvinism?

cause I am neither

Peter tells Simon to pray for himself. Simon's back to his old greedy way, so he is in wickedness, and needs to repent and pray.

Ditto, I go where scripture leads even if it is into a seeming paradox or contradiction.
Actually, I never intended the 'extra credit' part to become the main question but I guess that is where these boards often drift towards lol.

Simon's heart definitely was not right before God, and not wanting to judge whether he initially got saved (v.13) I'll leave it at that.

oh for sure

Calvinism is usually raging somewhere round these parts along with the charge you must by default be Arminian if you are not Calvinist

I am not sure I have found an example of one individual being prayed for in scripture, but quite a few that indicate we should pray for others, including Paul's prayers he includes in some letters

Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith would not fail...this could open up another can of worms tho...can a believer loose faith?

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

We should pray for the lost, but there is not a whole lot of scriptures on it in the New Testament, but prayer for the saints, and praying for oneself.

We can pray for the lost to be saved, but it might be a different kind of prayer than a saint praying for a saint, and a saint praying for themselves, but that we desire they come to the truth, but God is already working among the world to get them to come to the truth.

For the Arminian...Wouldn't a salvation prayer interfere with the free will of the lost?

I believe in free will, but without God intervening in our life no one would come to the truth, for no one comes to the Son unless the Father draws them, and no one says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

So we do not have free will entirely, for no one is on their own to find the truth, for it is impossible without God intervening in their life, but we still have free will to reject it, or accept it.

Also Jesus commands all people to preach the Gospel of Christ, so is that violating their free will, for whether we preach the Gospel of Christ wanting them to respond to it, or we pray to God to touch their hearts to respond to it, it is still a prompting that we want them to respond to it.

But the thing is if we pray for the lost does it make a difference, and will God have more of an impact on them, and work more mightily with them because of our prayer, or will He work with them to get them to come to the truth the same whether we pray or not.

For many are called, but few are chosen, and not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called, so God is working in the lives of the world according to their heart condition, whether we pray or not.

We can pray that God would work with them to change their heart condition so that they can be called, which He will then work with them to get them to come to the truth, for it is our heart condition when we were lost that caused us to be called to begin with, for we had a certain care for people, and decency, and wanted to know truth, even though we were still sinners, and not many that are wise, and mighty, and noble are called, because their heart condition is too lofty in arrogance, and wanting to rule over people, and caring about themselves, so our prayer for them would not make a difference, but it is their heart condition that needs to change to be called.

Mat 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
Mat 9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

But we can pray that God would send laborers to a certain area to reach the lost, but God by His Spirit is working among the world to get them to acknowledge the truth whether we pray for them or not.

For the Calvinist... Wouldn't a salvation prayer intefere with God's sovereign choice?

For this it would not matter if they prayed or not, for if they were chosen they will come to God regardless if they pray or not.

If they were chosen they would not even have to preach the Gospel, or give a concern among the lost, because by some miracle they will come to the truth anyway.

And they could be born among wolves, and raised by the wolves as the parents left the child, and have no human contact at all with anybody, and if they were chosen they will come to the truth anyway, somehow.

If God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice, then it does not matter if they pray or not, and God will only work in the lives He chose, for it would not make any sense to work in the lives He did not choose.

But God is no respecter of persons, and said what makes you to differ from another person, and if you think you are something, when you are nothing, you deceive yourselves, and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and if you offend in the least of the law, you offend in all.

So I would like to know what is the criteria, and measure, that God is choosing these people if all people are the same in God's eyes, and no one different from another.

That would be nice if they could explain why they were chosen and other people were not.

Also they cannot say, but we accept the truth, where they do not, and even concerning those that claim Christ that do not adhere to what we believe.

But the Bible says no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And no one comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

And flesh and blood does not reveal that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, but the Father.

And at the end time none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Which many people that are against OSAS, unless they abstain from sin by the Spirit, and sin does affect their relationship with God, confess these things.

So why is God working among them if they will not be saved for going against OSAS.

Another thing they should explain.