Not By Works

Is a person saved the moment they believe, or is there more they must do?




JLB

Adam doesnt really count hey, he was innocent and not "saved".
You dont need to be "saved" until yuo are "lost."

As for Judas, where does it say Judas was saved? Didnt Jesus say I chose you and ONE OF YOU is a devil?

Where did this happen?

ou

And your point is?

right.

just like some want to say that we are saved by grace, maintained by works. like you.

and then , the Sermon on the mount, the gold standard for Christian behavior, is brought up, and that person is asked if they uphold those standards 24/ 7, the person refuses to answer.

like you.

Hi D...I have to admit that it was through Frans post about Judas that got me to go and find out what I came up with from seeking ...
I have done that many times while I have been here , to go and find the answer , so I thank Fran for that...xox...

You may not be aware that the person you are speaking to, and espousing a need to follow the Lord, was banned a year and a half ago, made up a new account, and is willfully flouting with deception, the rules of this site.

How is that not blatant hypocrisy on her part?

It also says...

a. Judas was a thief holding the bag
b. A devil from the beginning
c. The Son of Perdition
d. The Devil entered Judas

He was not saved and then lost it..........and he was chosen because he was a lost man, a devil from the beginning and he would sell JESUS out for a bag of coins.....

It dont say Judas was a devil from the beginning anywhere btw, dont wanna nitpick but just pointing it out. Its commonly quoted like love the sinner hate the sin. But one verse that gets close is:

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The implication is found in the "be" verb IS..........Jesus chose the 12 knowing full well that JUDAS IS (not will become) a devil........We can logically and grammatically infer by the verbiage of Jesus and the "be" verb IS, which shows a state of being, that JUDAS was indeed a DEVIL from the beginning.....there are other indicators as well.........The definite article "THE" as applied unto Judas as "THE SON of PERDITION"

Taking your quote and the following quote it is inferred and not wrong to say that he was a devil from the beginning.....

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who would betray him.

How does this square with what you "learned" about righteousness? ("works" as dirty rags)

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

The funny thing about that whole discourse between Fran and Laurie is the simple truth that FRAN did not even quote it correctly....it says our RIGHTEOUSNESSES <----plural and NOT righteousness.....the indication being any work that we do that is righteousness and the words of JESUS prove this point....

While ON the planet with SAVED, IMMERSED APOSTLES and DISCIPLES and having called his DISCIPLES the "CHURCH" twice in present tense already he said.....

WHY do you call me good, there are NONE GOOD but GOD.............EVEN the saved, immersed APOSTLES and disciples were NOT identified as GOOD.........

Ephesians 1:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This scripture says the moment you heard the Gospel and believe in your heart you are saved and sealed by the holy spirit.

Hi again forum, so Fran aka GodsGrace10 was previously banned from this wonderful forum CC, and has returned violating the "Terms of Use" rules and now she is holding up Jesus as Lord, while living in unrepentant sin, whats wrong with that picture.

AMEN.....and given the free irrevocable GIFT of eternal life....NOT temporary life based upon what we do or do not do.....

You should be careful, even in the very OT passage-she quoted, it says our righteous DEEDS are as filthy rags.

Righteous deeds (plural) is not our righteounsness (singular) as she is trying to say, is interpreted as good deeds or good works. Ie,our righteous works are as filthy rags

Paul used the same term in Titus 3 when he said not by works of righteousness (ie righteous deeds) which we have done, ut by his mercy, he saved us.

She is wrong in this manner.

AMEN.....I pointed this out as well.....Fran is really good at manipulating words and verses so as to lead astray.....

I don't see the point you are making with this scripture. You will have to spell it out for me.

John 6:70
Then Jesus said, "I chose the twelve of you, 'but one is a devil."

Hi Hevosmies, I agree Judas was not saved. Past arguments have said that Judas was saved because he demonstrated remorse when he hung himself. That's an excuse and not provable because you cannot question the guilty party. Most believe Judas was a devil 'from the beginning' and so did Jesus.

John 6:64
"But there are some of you 'who do not believe.” For 'Jesus knew from the beginning' who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

Go tell your story to our Savior, that Judas lost his salvation. The bible does not say Judas was ever saved it say's he was a devil "from the beginning", period.

If Judas Iscariot sympathizer's were totally honest they would admit that they are trying to twist scripture in this case to prove eternal salvation can be lost by using Judas as an example, to their own shame. Jesus "Knew from the beginning", Judas was a fake disciple and his motive was the money.

Hi Dcon...

I've seen you use the word cainologists several times and I had to think about what this is. Scripture does say not to follow the way of Cain. Then cites his actions. So then how does this way muddy the waters of life that flows from the throne?

What I see is jealousy. And to apply it here in the discussions is the thought (possibly).... I've done all these works and have obeyed the Lord to my own hurt....and these others who don't will receive the same reward?

Sounds like the elder brother in the prodigal son story. Breeds hatred, and in Cains life, murder. Plus bitterness and lack of enjoyment of life.

Is there more to this? Might make a good thread to start.

The question that I see is about entrance into heaven. And that's only by blood and seen in Passover.