Not By Works
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Adam wasnt saved nor lost, he wasnt created lost. And he didnt need to be saved UNTIL sin. But thats irrelevant lets focus on Judas now:
YES Jesus chose a goat (a lost person). He says it right there: I've chosen you and ONE OF YOU is a devil. So Jesus knew exactly what was going on. THE SCRIPTURES needed to be fulfilled that He would be betrayed for silver coisn which is why Judas was "in charge" of that task.
John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
YES Jesus chose a goat (a lost person). He says it right there: I've chosen you and ONE OF YOU is a devil. So Jesus knew exactly what was going on. THE SCRIPTURES needed to be fulfilled that He would be betrayed for silver coisn which is why Judas was "in charge" of that task.
John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
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...Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4
...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and AS SOME CLAIM THAT WE SAY—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved. Romans 3:3-8
Did the apostles say “Let us do evil that good may result”? No.
BUT some on this thread are proud to call themselves "SINNERS" and say that obedience to God has no bearing unto salvation while mocking and insulting those who say otherwise, calling them "SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS", "WORKS SALVATIONISTS", "CAINOLOGISTS" and "PEDDLERS OF A FALSE GOSPEL" thus calling EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)
...But God is faithful to His promises to His own people where Judas was one of them and was even chosen to be one of the twelve apostles who are servants of God.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and THE PROMISES. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5 (See also Romans 11:11-36)
Apostles of Christ
...So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-7
...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and AS SOME CLAIM THAT WE SAY—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved. Romans 3:3-8
Did the apostles say “Let us do evil that good may result”? No.
BUT some on this thread are proud to call themselves "SINNERS" and say that obedience to God has no bearing unto salvation while mocking and insulting those who say otherwise, calling them "SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS", "WORKS SALVATIONISTS", "CAINOLOGISTS" and "PEDDLERS OF A FALSE GOSPEL" thus calling EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)
...But God is faithful to His promises to His own people where Judas was one of them and was even chosen to be one of the twelve apostles who are servants of God.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and THE PROMISES. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5 (See also Romans 11:11-36)
Apostles of Christ
...So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-7
I just read this, this afternoon.
22 Feeling deeply distressed, each one began to ask him, "Surely I am not the one, Lord?"
23 He replied, "The man who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me.
24 The Son of Man is going away, just as it has been written about him. How terrible it will be for that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for him if he had never been born."
25 Then Judas, who was going to betray him, asked, "Rabbi, I'm not the one, am I?" Jesus told him, "You have said so."
22 Feeling deeply distressed, each one began to ask him, "Surely I am not the one, Lord?"
23 He replied, "The man who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me.
24 The Son of Man is going away, just as it has been written about him. How terrible it will be for that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for him if he had never been born."
25 Then Judas, who was going to betray him, asked, "Rabbi, I'm not the one, am I?" Jesus told him, "You have said so."
Be my guest.
Jesus had just revealed to His disciples that He must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Matthew 16:21; Mark 8:31) Peter was not prepared for this new revelation of the Messiah’s purpose and apparently could not reconcile his view of the conquering Messiah with the suffering and death Jesus spoke of. So Peter rebuked Jesus for having such a mindset. Peter was inadvertently being used of Satan in thinking that he was protecting Jesus, yet Jesus rebuked Peter. Although Peter truly believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) he turned from God’s perspective in this situation and viewed the situation from man’s perspective, which brought about the rebuke from Jesus: “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (Mark 8:33). This does not mean that Peter was also a devil.
It does not help your case at all. John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' Do you think by Jesus choosing Judas, that must mean Judas was saved or that Judas was included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus, He kept?"
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or, this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.
In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease, so although this power was from Jesus, He still referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons (and His name did have that power) but Judas did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).
Jesus said send them out "as" sheep among wolves, which does not mean that Judas "was" truly a sheep. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.
"Unbelieving/unclean devil/who would betray Jesus/son of perdition" is not descriptive language of a sheep. Judas was NEVER a sheep of Jesus. In John 10:27-29, Jesus said - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Does that describe Judas Iscariot? NO. Does betraying Jesus represent following Him? NO. Did Jesus give Judas eternal life? NO. Did Judas perish? YES. So much for your theories.
How about a little context. Matthew 10:17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. This was still yet future and nothing is said about Judas experiencing this and he did not live that long. During His ministry, Jesus sent the 12 to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel. Your Father present in Judas theory falls short, but still applies to the remaining 11 disciples.
What does scripture say about Judas?
Judas was an unbelieving devil who would betray Jesus and Jesus knew this from the beginning. John 6:64-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas was not kept and was the son of perdition. John 17:12
Does that sound like "saved" to you?
Jesus had just revealed to His disciples that He must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Matthew 16:21; Mark 8:31) Peter was not prepared for this new revelation of the Messiah’s purpose and apparently could not reconcile his view of the conquering Messiah with the suffering and death Jesus spoke of. So Peter rebuked Jesus for having such a mindset. Peter was inadvertently being used of Satan in thinking that he was protecting Jesus, yet Jesus rebuked Peter. Although Peter truly believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) he turned from God’s perspective in this situation and viewed the situation from man’s perspective, which brought about the rebuke from Jesus: “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (Mark 8:33). This does not mean that Peter was also a devil.
It does not help your case at all. John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' Do you think by Jesus choosing Judas, that must mean Judas was saved or that Judas was included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus, He kept?"
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or, this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.
In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease, so although this power was from Jesus, He still referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons (and His name did have that power) but Judas did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).
Jesus said send them out "as" sheep among wolves, which does not mean that Judas "was" truly a sheep. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.
"Unbelieving/unclean devil/who would betray Jesus/son of perdition" is not descriptive language of a sheep. Judas was NEVER a sheep of Jesus. In John 10:27-29, Jesus said - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Does that describe Judas Iscariot? NO. Does betraying Jesus represent following Him? NO. Did Jesus give Judas eternal life? NO. Did Judas perish? YES. So much for your theories.
How about a little context. Matthew 10:17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. This was still yet future and nothing is said about Judas experiencing this and he did not live that long. During His ministry, Jesus sent the 12 to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel. Your Father present in Judas theory falls short, but still applies to the remaining 11 disciples.
What does scripture say about Judas?
Judas was an unbelieving devil who would betray Jesus and Jesus knew this from the beginning. John 6:64-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas was not kept and was the son of perdition. John 17:12
Does that sound like "saved" to you?
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