Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

Its not anything to do with intelligence.

I'm sure your 99 percent think you are supremely brilliant. I think your cult would be quite large.

I'm starting to think my cult will not have that many people at all. Especially when the 99 percent will only have disparaging things to say about us.

Oh well. We don't start our cults to be the biggest, right? Just the best.

I am amazed at those who have no comprehension of what the law did.

God gave moses 10 commands, he then gave some others and made the children of Isreal make an oath that the would confirm every word written in that law and that they would also obay every word, failure to do so would bring them under a curse.

Paul understood it (gal 3) as did james, when he said if we kept the whole law yet fail in one point, we are guilty of all.

From the point the law was confirmed, if you commit a sin, You are found guilty of the law, it did not matter how small or seemingly insignificant that sin was, it was still a sin, and the penatly fo that sin was to be cast out, or death.

Imagine 2 lands, one land dead and empty, the other alive and full of life, the dead and empty land is where the murderers and adulterers and sexually immoral people were sent, well when you commited that small seamingly insignificant sin, you were sent to that dead empty land with the murderers, adulterers and sexually immoral people, because you are just as guilty as they are.

Once you have been cast out, the number of sins you commit the rest of the time there does not matter, your guilt was secure with the one sin.

Once a year, on the day of atonement, the high priest would make sacrifice for his sin, and the sin of the people, if God accepted that sacrifice, all people are brought back from the land of the dead, and returned to the land of the living, until their next sin, where they are again cast out to the land of death (the penalty of sin is death) until the next day of atonement where again, the high priest makes atonement and the people are restored to life.

These laws were written in stone, they were written not to show poeple how to be righteous, but to prove their guilt when they are tried and found guilty, each time guilt is sentenced, so that people could not claim they did not do anything wrong, just like paul said, the commandment came and i died.

These things were given as a tutor or schoolmaster. As each year the people saw their guilt, saw their judgment and looked to the day of atonment, this was supposed to carry on every year until christ came, the true lamb of agid who wouod die once, for the sins of the poeple. So that no more would the smallest sin (any sin for that matter) cause death, meaning the poeple could take this good news, recieve it. And take this good news, understand the true love of God, and use this as an example to share god with others, and serve and love others, because we have been forgiven, we have the capability to love

The thought that these ten commands which could do nothing but condemn the person who breakes them just 1 time, no matter how small that sin might be, is written on our hearts so we can learn how to be righteous, is one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard. It could not teach the people to whom it was given how to live righteous lives, all it could do is prove them as guilty their fist sin, and cause them to be cast out. So how is it supposed to help us?

Again, if you do not know adultey is a sin, you have more issues than anyone here can help you with.

One of the most ridiculous things I have ever read, is peoples understanding that the law in our hearts can teach the believer how to be righteous. As far is as the east from the west is such understanding.

The Ministration of Righteousness that is the Epistle of Christ written in the Believers Heart doesn't teach Righteousness?

Funny name for a Ministry if it doesn't do what its name says it does.

I think its time, again...

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Epistle of Christ. Written with the Spirit of the Living God in fleshy tables of the heart.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

What is this epistle of Christ? Not the letter of the law because the letter Kills. Its the Spirit that is the epistle of Christ. The Spirit gives Life.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


The epistle of Christ. The Ministration of the Spirit. The Ministration of Righteousness. Written on fleshy tables of the heart.


What does the Ministration of Righteousness teach?

This shouldn't be a hard question.

But why ask me anything Grandpa, remember, I am one of the 99 percent of believers who you say are not that brilliant, and you are part of the one percent you obviously feel are brilliant. You carry on

Though I think we could give a better understanding of 2cor3:3

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts

Some come on the internet and cherry pick verses of scripture whilst ignoring the rest. They then make disparaging remarks about the vast majority who go to church, believing they have far greater understanding than them. The internet is an ideal place to do this of course. You can live out, what can only be described as a fantasy world, trying to impress others with what you think you know. As Paul said:
The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know 1Cor8:2

The more such people think they do know, the less in truth they actually know. But they always have the internet.

Another ridiculous post, as it was written to insinuate people like me could not comprehend what the law did. The truth is, it was written due to the writer not understanding the covenant the Christian is under.
Yep, the letter of the law kills, if you break one commandment you break them all. There is no true righteousness of obeying the law. I hope that has summed the relevant parts up! I must say, it is hard to fathom, due to what was written eternally grateful not believing righteousness/justification of obeying the law was in place under the old covenant.
And no matter how much you state the Christian has no righteousness of obeying the law, they obviously do not understand how that can be possible if the moral law of the ten commandments is written in your mind and placed on your heart, for they keep ignoring what you tell them and insist that is what you must believe. A clear inability to understand the covenant the Christian is under.
As eternally gratefull confirmed to me if he committed adfultery, murdered or coveted he would be convicted of sin, that is proof those commandments must be in your heart and mind, for through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20. But then, alas, excuses are made, he did not really state what he did, once he was shown the implications of what he wrote.
Best not to take internet debating websites too seriously

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so that we may obey it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so that we may obey it?’ 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so that you may obey it.


15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. Deut30:11-16

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant – not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 2Cor3:6-9

Why did Moses tell the people that to obey the law was not too difficult or beyond their reach, but Paul wrote it was the ministry of death and condemnation. Why the difference?

The one percent will tell us

You will find that Joseph in Genesis knew that sleeping with the Pharaoh's wife was a "wicked thing", even though he lived before the 10 commandments were given.

Have you been impressed?

Here's some for the road;

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

How can you be free from the law of sin and death if it is written in your heart and mind?

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

How can you be under grace and not under law if law is written in your heart and mind?

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

How can you be no longer under the schoolmaster if it is written in your heart and mind?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

How can you not be entangled with the yoke of bondage if it is written in your heart and mind?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

How can you have received Rest if the law is written on your heart and mind?


Probably don't worry about these "cherry picked" verses. Just keep stating your silliness as if it were fact. I'm sure it will stick at some point. Just maybe not with real Christians.

Have you told us the name of your cult yet? I may have missed it...

Don't stop at those verses, add some more. Here's a few:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/justified in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore if you observe the law you do not commit sin, if you fail to observe it you do commit sin, and so, rom3:20 could be written as:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.
The difference between us is, I do not cherry pick against your verses, that is not mature Christianity, I leave that to those who believe they in the elite one percent
!

Yep, and sin is mentioned in Genesis. Because as soon as the forbidden apple was ate man instinctively knew what was right ands wrong in God's sight

I notice also, the one percent, and others who believe they have superior knowledge have not addressed the question posed concerning post 509. One can only wonder why. For I know they are only to eager to share what they think they know

Lets address Grandpas questions, however, once they are all addressed, by simply explaining the new covenant, those who consider themselves the elite one percent will never admit to error of understanding, for they are here to impress others with what they think they know, so admitting to error is unthinkable!!!





The believer has righteousness/justification apart from obeying the law, law that is holy, just and good. Law that God wants no one to go around transgressing as a lifestyle.


If you say to the average believer: You have no righteousness of not committing sin/observing the law as a believer, what are they immediately going to think? You must have a licence to sin, for you are righteous/justified in God’s sight whether you do or do not commit sin. That is a natural reaction, and one I have been given so often. Indeed, in Rom3:20-30 Paul stresses the believer has no righteousness of obeying the law, they are justified apart from works of the law. And he of course, knew his readers would also think as many do today after reading what he wrote. Hence verse31:


Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law


So how was God going to make a covenant, whereby he could give the believer righteousness apart from obeying the law, but at the same time remove a licence to sin under it? Everytime I consider this, it marvels me anew as to the plan of God. What an incredible covenant.


God transferred the law/what is written in it from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts and minds. What is in your heart you in your heart want to follow. If it is in your heart not to want to steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, take the Lords name in vain, it is then absolutely impossible for you to say: As I have righteousness apart from obeying the law I am free to act however I like, I am free to transgress what is holy just and goods as much as I like. God cut that out, he cut out a licence to sin by putting the desire in believers hearts not to want to do those things. At the same time he did that, he stated your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for you have a saviour from your sin. That law is not in your heart and mind so it can condemn you, it cannot, that law is not there so you focus on it, and strive to obey it in order to be justified, it is there, as part of a perfect covenant that cuts out a licence to sin under grace.


What happens if you go against how you in your heart want to live and know you should live? You are filled with remorse aren’t you? Same for the believer, when they wilfully go against how in their heart they want to live as a Christian they get filled with remorse too, and they have no rest or peace until they come before their Father in heaven and tell him they are sorry for how they acted. It is utterly impossible therefore for a truly born again believer with that law in their heart to say: I can keep sinning as much as I want without a care in the world as I have no righteousness of works of the law


That’s the new covenant, not that the one percent will accept it, they will probably still cry legalism!





The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know 1Cor8:2

Note the order in the following:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:


16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb10-15-17

You only get a saviour from sin because the law is in your heart. You in your heart do not want to live a lifestyle against what is holy, just and good. Though the law is in your heart and mind that law brings no condemnation, there is no righteousness of obeying it, for though it is there, your sins and transgressions against it will be remembered no more.
In other words, as you in your heart want to live a holy life, in keeping with how God wants you to act, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for you as a believer have no licence to sin under such circumstances. God made a full proof covenant, he left no holes in it

However, we do not want to be accused of not addressing points(even if those who can discern the truth know they have been addressed:


1) You are free from the law of sin and death, though the law is placed within you, for your sins and transgressions concerning that law will be remembered no more, for the believer has a saviour from their sin


2) You are under grace and not law, though the law is in your heart and mind, for to be under law is to be under the condemnation of it, no believer is under the laws condemnation for their sins and transgressions will be remembered no more.


3) You are no longer under the schoolmaster, though the law is within you, for you do not look to that law to be trained in righteousness, living as God wants you to live, you look to Christ and trust in the sanctification of the Spirit to live an ever holier life


4) You are not entangled with a yoke of bondage, though the law is within you for it brings no justification/righteousness to the believer, nor do they focus on it in order to follow Christ.


5) You have rest, though the law is within you, for your rest is in Christ who died for you. He paid the price of your imperfections concerning that law. You are righteous because of what Christ did for you, not by obeying law within you. It is not there for that purpose

But now further discussion is not profitable. People who come to these websites seeking to boast they are part of a select one percent who understand more than everyone else who go to church can never admit to error. Such boasting simply shows how little they do truly understand of the true message. Maturity is not found in such people. It is simply pandering to the flesh. Neither can it be found in cherry picking the same old verses and shutting their eyes to the rest. Stimulating debate is not possible in such circumstances. And so, Grandpa, eternally grateful write as many posts to me as you wish, I am placing you both on ignore, and none will be responded

Is he still talking?

And still will not let us know where he attends services? Whats he hiding?

How did any of that address the questions asked in post #511???

DO you understand the questions asked in post #511???

Do you think it is better to just avoid the questions since they easily refute your cults teachings?

The difference between us is the basic understanding of scripture and fundamental Christianity. If you had understanding you would answer the questions instead of avoiding them.

Don't you WANT to help the poor misguided people who don't understand?? Or have you given up already? You need to study your cults some more to see that they don't give up that easily.