Not By Works

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Dec 27, 2018
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Addendum to last post...so called faith without heart repentance is mere intellectual assent. So do you believe in heart repentance? Or is it the choice of the will that tips the scales?

You see, intellectual assent and willpower are human faculties, and human faculties do not save. The powerful, heart changing, life transforming power of God's Spirit saves. You know, it's the power of God that makes us alive, not our choice? And it's the power of God that keeps us, not our willpower.

so the question still stands...Do you think a person who genuinely has trusted Christ for salvation will continue in fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc till death parts their spirit from their body? Because surprisingly, you did not BOLD that part when you said "no one has argued for such a position. Why didnt you bold that part, DC?

I still have a question on the table for you in the "God lied' forum, if you want to give an answer. I have answered all of your questions, it would be nice if you would not avoid so many of mine.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Addendum to last post...so called faith without heart repentance is mere intellectual assent. So do you believe in heart repentance? Or is it the choice of the will that tips the scales?

You see, intellectual assent and willpower are human faculties, and human faculties do not save. The powerful, heart changing, life transforming power of God's Spirit saves. You know, it's the power of God that makes us alive, not our choice? And it's the power of God that keeps us, not our willpower.

so the question still stands...Do you think a person who genuinely has trusted Christ for salvation will continue in fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc till death parts their spirit from their body? Because surprisingly, you did not BOLD that part when you said "no one has argued for such a position. Why didnt you bold that part, DC?

I still have a question on the table for you in the "God lied' forum, if you want to give an answer. I have answered all of your questions, it would be nice if you would not avoid so many of mine.


NOW I HAVE GOT TO INTERRUPT. Most of us HEAR do not think OBEDIENCE IS PART OF SALVATION.

BUT WE ALL BELIEVE OBEDIENCE IS PART OF OUR LOVE FOR GOD, AFTER WE ARE SAVED once and for all FOREVER.


WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
 
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ROMANS 5:10.
For if, when we were 'enemies', we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life"
 
Dec 27, 2018
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NOW I HAVE GOT TO INTERRUPT. Most of us HEAR do not think OBEDIENCE IS PART OF SALVATION.

BUT WE ALL BELIEVE OBEDIENCE IS PART OF OUR LOVE FOR GOD, AFTER WE ARE SAVED.
I certainly agree with that. But I have heard it said in these parts that once you believe, you are saved and will go to heaven NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO and no matter what sin you are practicing when you die.

OK, so if I make a profession of faith, and yet I live my whole life fornicating, adulterating, sorcerating, etc. does that mean that 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is wrong, or does it mean that my faith was not genuine

I have been attacked repeatedly for saying that GENUINE FAITH will have qualities that demonstrate it's genuinity. I have been called a legalistic, a works based salvationist, and questioned if I believe in multiple regenerations.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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ROMANS 5:10.
For if, when we were 'enemies', we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life"
Yes, but some people think you can be reconciled to God and yet continue to live like God's enemy and still be saved. Do you believe this? I don't.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

My beef is with people who say "it doesnt matter what you do after you are saved, you are saved no matter what". I'm sorry, but my bible says "by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commands"

Am I supposed to base my theology on words like these, or on the fact that so many Christians are inconsistent in their walk (ie basing my theology on EXPERIENCE)
 
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.You do understand that the bible teaches guilt by association right......that makes you guilty as well
Yes, I do understand that when you use "guilt by association" in an argument or debate, it's a logical fallacy. Did you know that? Not to mention the fact that my comments have nothing to do with her comments and everything to do with your actions, non actions, and words
 

Budman

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Mar 9, 2014
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Answer the question. DO you hold to easy believism in the sense that a person can give a mental assent to the gospel, yet still continue in fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc until death parts their spirit from their body and be saved.
I know you directed this to Dcon, but for the record, I am one of those who advocate that belief in Jesus is all that is needed for salvation. Sorrow, promising to turn from sin, making Jesus "Lord", baptism, etc., are not what saves.

Belief and belief only. Just as Paul told the Philippian jailer.

And why do you single out fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc.? How about dying in the state of being a liar, gossiper, coveter, or failing to honor one's parents?

And also for the record, if a born again believer dies in a state of sin, that believer is still saved.

Because all believers sin, every....single....day.

Including you.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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..."THEY WILL WEED OUT OF HIS KINGDOM everything that CAUSES SIN and all who do evil."

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26

...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20

...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23

...And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

How can those who CLAIM to be saved thru Faith ALONE suffer for Christ if they believe and insist that no works of any sort is needed, but to believe/faith ALONE is sufficient to be saved.

Does a person who teaches obedience to God cause another person to sin by doing so?

Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?

Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?

Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)

Is it obedience to God to break the law?

Did the Holy servants of God such as the prophets and the apostles OBEYED and taught OBEDIENCE to God?

Who then causes another person to sin?

...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and BECOME LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever HUMBLES HIMSELF like this child is the greatest in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 “Woe to the world because of the things that CAUSE PEOPLE TO SIN! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you TO ENTER LIFE maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you TO ENTER LIFE with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. THIS IS HOW WE KNOW WE ARE IN HIM: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
I see the new deceiver gave me a thumbs down.....oh well.....the children of the devil flock together and when ONE lies and states that i do not post scripture I can only conclude what I concluded in the above post......gotta love those that sell the truth out regularly while siding with liars and deceivers....speaks volumes to who really leads them..
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHET WILL APPEAR AND DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.51 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the HYPOCRITES (see Mark 7:6-13, Matthew 23:1-3), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You teach contrary to what is written in the bible. You disregard SANCTIFICATION, PURIFICATION, PERFECTION, RESURRECTION, GLORIFICATION, JUDGMENT DAY As part of salvation and thereby reject the TRUTH by saying that ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED through FAITH "ALONE" without or void of any sort of righteous works including OBEDIENCE TO GOD which you and your group consider to be part of LOVE but not of SALVATION as if LOVE cannot save.

...Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION. God is not unjust; he will not forget your WORK and the LOVE you have shown him as you have helped his people and CONTINUE TO HELP THEM. We want each of you to show this same DILIGENCE TO THE VERY END, in order to make your HOPE SURE. We do not want you to become LAZY, but to imitate those who through FAITH and PATIENCE inherit what has been PROMISED.Hebrews 6:9-12

...Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIE YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 2 Corinthians 9:13

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED AND UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in CONTROVERSIES and QUARRELS about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between MEN OF CORRUPT MIND, who have been ROBBED OF THE TRUTH and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...LET GOD BE TRUE...

...GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...

...Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEA, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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so the question still stands...Do you think a person who genuinely has trusted Christ for salvation will continue in fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc till death parts their spirit from their body? Because surprisingly, you did not BOLD that part when you said "no one has argued for such a position. Why didnt you bold that part, DC?

I still have a question on the table for you in the "God lied' forum, if you want to give an answer. I have answered all of your questions, it would be nice if you would not avoid so many of mine.
The answer to your question about would a person still be saved if they continued in fornication is found in John 8:1-8. But your pursuit of an answer to your question is so judgmental that you almost appear as evil as the Scribes and Pharisee's who brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus. Macabeus put down your stones and just go away with no words as did the woman's interrogators.

John 8:7
7)
Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8) And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.

Actually you are worse than the interrogators of the woman caught in the act because you attach the words of "Christian" to your mean spirited pursuit and you use the lowest common denominator in your quest to be the judge of sinners or did you think some sinners are just to far gone for God to save. Either way you must think your sin ain't that bad after all.
Your prejudice is falling all over your mean spirited posts.

John 8:11 - The Woman Caught in Adultery
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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The answer to your question about would a person still be saved if they continued in fornication is found in John 8:1-8. But your pursuit of an answer to your question is so judgmental that you almost appear as evil as the Scribes and Pharisee's who brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus. Macabeus put down your stones and just go away with no words as did the woman's interrogators.

John 8:7
7)
Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8) And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.

Actually you are worse than the interrogators of the woman caught in the act because you attach the words of "Christian" to your mean spirited pursuit and you use the lowest common denominator in your quest to be the judge of sinners or did you think some sinners are just to far gone for God to save. Either way you must think your sin ain't that bad after all.
Your prejudice is falling all over your mean spirited posts.

John 8:11 - The Woman Caught in Adultery
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
The question was clear,...will continue...? Jesus told the woman to leave her life of sin which means not to continue.

Does she need to REPENT and OBEY Jesus?

...Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:3

...WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:20-24
 
Dec 27, 2018
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I know you directed this to Dcon, but for the record, I am one of those who advocate that belief in Jesus is all that is needed for salvation. Sorrow, promising to turn from sin, making Jesus "Lord", baptism, etc., are not what saves.

Belief and belief only. Just as Paul told the Philippian jailer.

And why do you single out fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc.? How about dying in the state of being a liar, gossiper, coveter, or failing to honor one's parents?

And also for the record, if a born again believer dies in a state of sin, that believer is still saved.

Because all believers sin, every....single....day.

Including you.
So Paul was wrong when he said adulterers, fornicators, liars, sorcerers, etc will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven? (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

I know all believers sin. But not all believers live an "asotos", that is riotous, dissolute, profligate lifestyle.

A good example of the EXCESS of your teaching is that DC and someone else used the PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON to teach that someone COULD DIE IN A ASOTOS (GREEK), profligate, dissolute lifestyle and be saved.

Once a son always a son, they say...

But they don't realize they are MISHANDLING THAT TEXT.

The prodigal son is NOT EVEN ABOUT Christians who backslide and come back. It's about Publicans and sinners who come to Jesus (prodigal) and the scribes and pharisees (elder son) who murmer about it.

Yes, I sin. Yes you sin. But do we live in unrestrained, habitual sin. NO. Because the grace of God teaches us not to do that.
 
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The question was clear,...will continue...? Jesus told the woman to leave her life of sin which means not to continue.

Does she need to REPENT and OBEY Jesus?

...Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:3

...WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:20-24
Yes, Jesus said "go and sin no more". He also told another person "sin no more, lest something worse happen to you"
 
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The doctrine of Perserverance of the Saints is wholesome.

OSAS, as it is taught by some here, ie saved even if you live a life of unrestrained pandering to the flesh (which a true Christian will not do, see 1 John 3) is an unwholesome, FALSE, deformed, per-version of that wholesome doctrine of perserverane.

...and if you teach that a christian can live and die like the prodigal and still be a son, (as several have) then you are teaching that a Christian can live a life of unrestrained pandering to the flesh.

A christian can fall and become a prodigal, but by the grace of God WILL NOT STAY THERE.

...and the prodigal is not about Christian backsliders anyways. IS IT?

But this is one of the many bad arguments used to support OSAS. Using bad arguments to support a doctrine makes it look bad whether it is bad or not.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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The answer to your question about would a person still be saved if they continued in fornication is found in John 8:1-8. But your pursuit of an answer to your question is so judgmental that you almost appear as evil as the Scribes and Pharisee's who brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus. Macabeus put down your stones and just go away with no words as did the woman's interrogators.

John 8:7
7)
Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8) And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.

Actually you are worse than the interrogators of the woman caught in the act because you attach the words of "Christian" to your mean spirited pursuit and you use the lowest common denominator in your quest to be the judge of sinners or did you think some sinners are just to far gone for God to save. Either way you must think your sin ain't that bad after all.
Your prejudice is falling all over your mean spirited posts.

John 8:11 - The Woman Caught in Adultery
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
Actually...do you have the full story on this?

have you read that to teach of evidences of true conversion is a works based salvation? (even though John repeatedly said the words "by this we KNOW")

And that a Christian can die in a "prodigal" lifestyle and be saved?

Or have you read when the parable of the prodigal son was misinterpreted and misapplied to teach "once a son, always a son, even if one lives riotously in unrestrained sin (is that not how the prodigal lived?)

And do you know the true meaning and intent of the parable of the prodigal son, and do you know that to use it that way is a horrible misapplication of scripture?

I am not being mean spirited, you just do not have the full story.

If you believe a Christian can live a "asotos" ie profligate, dissolute lifestyle and die in that condition, and go to heaven, pray tell, what do you do with 1 Cor. 6:9-11? Are we positionally no longer adulterers, fornicators, and liars, but in practice we still do such things.

Oh, some will say our body will fornicate and lie, but our spirit is guiltless. THAT IS NOT WHAT THE SCRIPTURE TEACHES.

He who is forgiven much loves much. and He who loves keeps God's commands and they are not a burden to them.
 
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I know you directed this to Dcon, but for the record, I am one of those who advocate that belief in Jesus is all that is needed for salvation. Sorrow, promising to turn from sin, making Jesus "Lord", baptism, etc., are not what saves.

Belief and belief only. Just as Paul told the Philippian jailer.

And why do you single out fornication, adultery, sorcery, etc.? How about dying in the state of being a liar, gossiper, coveter, or failing to honor one's parents?

And also for the record, if a born again believer dies in a state of sin, that believer is still saved.

Because all believers sin, every....single....day.

Including you.
AMEN.....I have been clear for almost two years on this thread in my stance and yet they come out of the proverbial wood work to deceive, say that I don't post scripture, etc.........and then when you post FACTUAL TRUTH like my point about guilt by association above I get negative remarks from dishonest people.....

Really makes me wonder how many of these people on this site actually know JESUS through the word.....
 
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So Paul was wrong when he said adulterers, fornicators, liars, sorcerers, etc will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven? (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

I know all believers sin. But not all believers live an "asotos", that is riotous, dissolute, profligate lifestyle.

A good example of the EXCESS of your teaching is that DC and someone else used the PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON to teach that someone COULD DIE IN A ASOTOS (GREEK), profligate, dissolute lifestyle and be saved.

Once a son always a son, they say...

But they don't realize they are MISHANDLING THAT TEXT.

The prodigal son is NOT EVEN ABOUT Christians who backslide and come back. It's about Publicans and sinners who come to Jesus (prodigal) and the scribes and pharisees (elder son) who murmer about it.

Yes, I sin. Yes you sin. But do we live in unrestrained, habitual sin. NO. Because the grace of God teaches us not to do that.
Answer the question....YES or NO

Can a son by birth ever not be a son by birth....YES or NO

I have a son that was born my SON.....tell me what can change that........we will all wait for your answer......see if you can be honest.....highly unlikely though
 
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NOW I HAVE GOT TO INTERRUPT. Most of us HEAR do not think OBEDIENCE IS PART OF SALVATION.

BUT WE ALL BELIEVE OBEDIENCE IS PART OF OUR LOVE FOR GOD, AFTER WE ARE SAVED once and for all FOREVER.


WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Amen, it is not difficult to understand at the end of the day......and the tragically sad truth is that the "salvation losers or maintainers" have no concept of who God whips and why..........
 
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As I read this morning I see the same old lie spewed by the salvation losers and or maintainers......that those who believe in eternal security believe that we can live any way we want....HAHAHHAHAH the same old straw man argument.......oblivious to the fact that the bible speaks to a WAY of life and GOD whips and chastens disobedient sons and daughters....he does not cast them away nor do they lose salvation.....
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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AMEN.....I have been clear for almost two years on this thread in my stance and yet they come out of the proverbial wood work to deceive, say that I don't post scripture, etc.........and then when you post FACTUAL TRUTH like my point about guilt by association above I get negative remarks from dishonest people.....

Really makes me wonder how many of these people on this site actually know JESUS through the word.....
No wonder you're wondering because acripture says it clear that we have to obey His commands which contradicts your beliefs.

...We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DOWHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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No one is saying that we don't need to obey God's commands. We cannot fully obey His commands, because we are still sinful humans who fall short of His glory.

Good works naturally follow being saved. BUT those works are not to be done with the sole purpose of gaining, keeping and maintaining salvation..