God LIED!

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louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
Bingo!
Someone that knows what BELIEVE means!
Those that believe in Jesus and that He IS GOD....
will strive to follow Him in His ways.
Amen.
They who love Christs Way will naturally do acts of love, mercy, truth, humility, etc.
Like the good Samaritan in Luke 10, and the individual in "the kite runner" who divested himself of all his material wealth to help the orphans of war.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
They who love Christs Way will naturally do acts of love, mercy, truth, humility, etc.
Like the good Samaritan in Luke 10, and the individual in "the kite runner" who divested himself of all his material wealth to help the orphans of war.
God/love (1 John 4:8 &16) was in these individual's hearts to do what they did.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
They who love Christs Way will naturally do acts of love, mercy, truth, humility, etc.
Like the good Samaritan in Luke 10, and the individual in "the kite runner" who divested himself of all his material wealth to help the orphans of war.
There's a middle aged man here in the town where I live that keeps what he needs to live and gives away the rest of his pay to those in need. He's not married and is happy to do this...
We are not all called to do this....But he's responding to God's call for HIS life.
And, yes, the good we could do will come naturally for those born of above.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Okay, now that I have your attention....

One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.



So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
let God be true and every man a lie. God didnt lie but you certainly are taking his word way out of context.

we cannot lose our salvation (like you lose your keys etc....) But you can LEAVE your salvation
much like the prodigal son left his home and went to a far country!
 
Feb 6, 2019
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I could probably say this in every thread but we must have child like faith in receiving Christ. It’s as simple as A B C. Admit you are a sinner, Believe Christ died for your sins and rose on the 3rd day and Confess your sins to the Lord and we shall receive salvation! Praise Jesus!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
we cannot lose our salvation (like you lose your keys etc....) But you can LEAVE your salvation
No, you can't.

Charles Stanley said it best; Salvation is a gift. You can give it back only if the giver (God) accepts the return, and God has a no-return policy. There is absolutely no example in the bible that God has ever taken back from a believer the gift of salvation once it has been given. His love would keep Him from doing so. And in no way can it be taken back. A gift that can/will be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.

Christ came to seek and to save the lost. Why would He take back what He came to give?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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No, you can't.

Charles Stanley said it best; Salvation is a gift. You can give it back only if the giver (God) accepts the return, and God has a no-return policy. There is absolutely no example in the bible that God has ever taken back from a believer the gift of salvation once it has been given. His love would keep Him from doing so. And in no way can it be taken back. A gift that can/will be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.

Christ came to seek and to save the lost. Why would He take back what He came to give?

Like I said in the works thread.....many need the designation "cake taker"
 
Jan 28, 2019
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Yes.

You are mixing Law/Grace.

Which is what a Judaizer does.

Which is why Paul rebuked them so sharply.
I hear you, however I’m not claiming you have to follow Torah to be saved, only that in my walk and my belief it is a way to walk in purity, Torah is not a salvation tool but rather a walk and separate-from-the-world tool. You have your views from your studies and feel that the way you walk is correct, as do I, and the beauty of peaceful discussion without causing dissension especially in an online format is that we can all glean insight from eachother. Now then, with that being said I wish you peace and applaud your passion, whether or not I agree with you. Tis better to have passion than be lukewarm as we see in revelation.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
I hear you, however I’m not claiming you have to follow Torah to be saved, only that in my walk and my belief it is a way to walk in purity,
Nothing we do can make us any more pure than what Jesus did for us.

As believers we have been made righteous, holy, and perfect.

You can't get any better than that. :)

But I applaud your desire to live a life pleasing to the Lord.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
I hear you, however I’m not claiming you have to follow Torah to be saved, only that in my walk and my belief it is a way to walk in purity, Torah is not a salvation tool but rather a walk and separate-from-the-world tool. You have your views from your studies and feel that the way you walk is correct, as do I, and the beauty of peaceful discussion without causing dissension especially in an online format is that we can all glean insight from eachother. Now then, with that being said I wish you peace and applaud your passion, whether or not I agree with you. Tis better to have passion than be lukewarm as we see in revelation.
Greetings Shemuel,

I would also add to what Budman is saying: We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation perfectly and completely on our behalf. Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.

It is Jesus who experienced God's wrath that all believers deserve, so that God's wrath no longer rests upon us.

When we believed in Him we were credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and that because God is looking at us through Christ's righteousness, not ours. As the scripture says:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." - Eph.2:8 (NLT)

If we trust in our own works as requirements for salvation along side of Christ's finished work on the cross, then it is the same as saying that His sacrifice was insufficient. If we are following Christ and led by the Spirit, then we will fulfill the things of the law, yet we are not under the law, we died to it. And if we fail at anything, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just for forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
 
Jan 28, 2019
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Nothing we do can make us any more pure than what Jesus did for us.

As believers we have been made righteous, holy, and perfect.

You can't get any better than that. :)

But I applaud your desire to live a life pleasing to the Lord.
To this I agree with you sir, the Messiah’s sacrifice is what makes us pure and clean before our God. Walking out His statutes and commandments to the best of my ability is what I feel called to do. We both agree the only way to be saved is through the blood of the Messiah, and to live a life led by the spirit, love our God with all our heart mind and soul and to love our neighboor as ourself. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply.
 
Jan 28, 2019
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Greetings Shemuel,

I would also add to what Budman is saying: We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation perfectly and completely on our behalf. Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.

It is Jesus who experienced God's wrath that all believers deserve, so that God's wrath no longer rests upon us.

When we believed in Him we were credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and that because God is looking at us through Christ's righteousness, not ours. As the scripture says:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." - Eph.2:8 (NLT)

If we trust in our own works as requirements for salvation along side of Christ's finished work on the cross, then it is the same as saying that His sacrifice was insufficient. If we are following Christ and led by the Spirit, then we will fulfill the things of the law, yet we are not under the law, we died to it. And if we fail at anything, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just for forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

I agree, the Messiah is the only way in which we are saved and our works can not save us. I do however believe that to love my God with all my heart soul and mind, I am to walk in His commandments which are listed in the Torah. I don’t say this as a “thou shalt also do” statement but rather a statement of what I feel I have been led to do in my studies and prayer as He says He knows we love Him by our obedience. Once again to make clear I don’t believe my works or obedience is what saves me, in fact salvation is only possible through the Messiah. But my walk and daily life I can do through the statutes written in order to do my best to not practice sin. Obedience has nothing to do with mercy and grace as those are items that we recieve not by our own doing but through Him alone.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
No, you can't.

Charles Stanley said it best; Salvation is a gift. You can give it back only if the giver (God) accepts the return, and God has a no-return policy. There is absolutely no example in the bible that God has ever taken back from a believer the gift of salvation once it has been given. His love would keep Him from doing so. And in no way can it be taken back. A gift that can/will be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.

Christ came to seek and to save the lost. Why would He take back what He came to give?
I think i will believe the word of God over Charles
John 15:5-6 (KJV)
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I believe "Traditions of Man, that makes VOID the Word of God", is being Mis-Interpreted, as "Works=Salvation."

Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Tis as true NOW, as it was when Jesus spoke these words to His Disciples!

John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man COMETH unto the Father, BUT, by me.

Luke 9
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Take up your cross, and go where? Unto the Father? WHY?!
There are "no works"required for any further salvation. CORRECT?

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God AND of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Tell me again, how "picking up ones' cross", and going unto God, equals "works=Salvation?" :unsure:

Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

If, these verses cannot impress upon readers, that what is interpreted as "works=Slavation", but rather "Works REQUIRED" in "Expanding the "Word of God" WITHIN oneself?

Then? STICK with Jesus! As the traditions of men, have already succeeded in their "MAKING void!"
 
Dec 12, 2013
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To this I agree with you sir, the Messiah’s sacrifice is what makes us pure and clean before our God. Walking out His statutes and commandments to the best of my ability is what I feel called to do. We both agree the only way to be saved is through the blood of the Messiah, and to live a life led by the spirit, love our God with all our heart mind and soul and to love our neighboor as ourself. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply.
He does not believe the same thing you do.....the word AND interjects self and that makes void the saving faith of Christ.......

JESUS plus = gospel of a different kind with no power to save
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I agree, the Messiah is the only way in which we are saved and our works can not save us. I do however believe that to love my God with all my heart soul and mind, I am to walk in His commandments which are listed in the Torah. I don’t say this as a “thou shalt also do” statement but rather a statement of what I feel I have been led to do in my studies and prayer as He says He knows we love Him by our obedience. Once again to make clear I don’t believe my works or obedience is what saves me, in fact salvation is only possible through the Messiah. But my walk and daily life I can do through the statutes written in order to do my best to not practice sin. Obedience has nothing to do with mercy and grace as those are items that we recieve not by our own doing but through Him alone.
Romans 11
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree (that be us gentiles): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (this would be Israel)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

We all of us! Wait! With "baited" breath, brother!
 
Jan 28, 2019
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He does not believe the same thing you do.....the word AND interjects self and that makes void the saving faith of Christ.......

JESUS plus = gospel of a different kind with no power to save
Dcontroversal,

You Misinterpret how I wrote that, I was saying the agreement is on Messiah being the only way to salvation. Period. Then second point being living a life led by the spirit, not an And statement of being necessity but that we both agree that our lives should be led by the spirit. I see how you read it, but also did not ask for clarification. I was not saying you must do both to be saved. As I have stated a few times, the only way to be saved is through the sacrifice of our Messiah. I appreciate you jumping in and trying to clarify what you thought I was saying, but I am happy to clarify what my sentence actually said and expound again that the only ay to be saved is through Messiah. We should also lead lives lead by the spirit, we should also love God with all our hearts souls and minds, and we should also love our neighbors as our selves. See how it was a collection of statements and not a continuation of one thought? Thanks for your input though, i do appreciate your insight.
 

Jan7777777

Active member
Oct 19, 2018
224
154
43
Okay, now that I have your attention....

One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.



So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
~~~~~~~~

I liked what my cousin ( who was a pastor at that time he's deceased now) said...He said next time someone says they can lose their salvation, ask them how many sins it will take to be lost ...so I ask a lady at work that question when she announced you can be lost, she said only one sin will make you lost.... I said well, if one sin will make you lost again, then wouldn't you be lost everyday, since we sin daily. She said that is why you repent.... I said, "well, if you are lost( which means you do not have Christ living inside you as your master even tho you ask him to be master and agreed to be his child) then the Bible says repent and be baptized....so if we sin daily as you see us being lost after only one sin....then we would have to get baptized daily cause if you are lost, the steps after getting saved is to be baptized. she digested that awhile and got up and left.

……………..we are sealed …. " Eph. ...And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption "...

….sealed with what:? The Blood of Jesus.

if satan put his hand through that blood to pluck that soul...……….Jesus blood is salvation blood, satan isn't going near his blood..

satan knows the bible well, he also BELIEVES and trembles. ( James 2:19 )

neither shall ANY man pluck them out of my hand.(JOHN 10:28)
once we are his children, no one can have us.

I have 2 children, they are grown now...what if they decided to not have a thing to do with me, and say they have no mother or dad....will they still be my kids...….I will answer that ..Yes....

we are borned again when we ask him to be master of us, we become his children...
…….. I serve a mighty God, no one can go up against him. Praise the Lord.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Dcontroversal,

You Misinterpret how I wrote that, I was saying the agreement is on Messiah being the only way to salvation. Period. Then second point being living a life led by the spirit, not an And statement of being necessity but that we both agree that our lives should be led by the spirit. I see how you read it, but also did not ask for clarification. I was not saying you must do both to be saved. As I have stated a few times, the only way to be saved is through the sacrifice of our Messiah. I appreciate you jumping in and trying to clarify what you thought I was saying, but I am happy to clarify what my sentence actually said and expound again that the only ay to be saved is through Messiah. We should also lead lives lead by the spirit, we should also love God with all our hearts souls and minds, and we should also love our neighbors as our selves. See how it was a collection of statements and not a continuation of one thought? Thanks for your input though, i do appreciate your insight.
Thanks for the clarification.........the word "and" is a conjunction in English and connects words, phrases and clauses......so, when I seen AND that naturally ties the two lines of thought together............thanks again