Not By Works
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my wife and i were driving home last night, some 2 or 3 hours, talking about all the places where a special garment or article of clothing is found in scripture -- all we can remember. it's absolutely fascinating -- not only the typology of being robed in Christ, e.g. the armor of light, the clothing He made for Adam and Eve, the wedding garment, the robe put on the prodigal son, the mantle of Elijah, etc etc -- but the counterfeits: the Babylonian garment stolen out of Jericho, the priestly robes Samson took to give for the wrongfully won prize, the grave clothes of Lazarus, the young man holding the clothes of those who stoned Stephen, and the pharisees who tried to cast out demons in Christ's name, who were attacked by that demon, and fled away naked!
Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
Thou hast granted me life and favour, and Thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
And these things hast Thou hid in Thine heart: I know that this is with Thee.
(Job 10:11-13)
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well. tell us where your studying has lead you.
I mean, you keep implying that you " through the Sprit" have all this understanding, and we don't , just come out and plainly say you believe, and stop demanding your questions be answered, and just state your beliefs.
i' be watching, might even be in a tower.
I mean, you keep implying that you " through the Sprit" have all this understanding, and we don't , just come out and plainly say you believe, and stop demanding your questions be answered, and just state your beliefs.
i' be watching, might even be in a tower.
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Ok then you are among those who believe we can continue in sin and still be servants to sin and still be saved?Read:
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."(Romans 6:1-4)
"Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."(Romans 6:11-14)
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"(Romans 6:15,16)
"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."(Romans 6:20-23)
Read the studies, "Justification", "Iniquity,Charity and Faith"(Post #82364,84145,84149) which shows the proper relationship between faith and works and which reconciles passages which appear to be contradictory.
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Wow. I must have it all twisted. You're doing " the tree by its fruit" thing huh?
I thought the separation was our proclamation that "CHRIST IS KING!"
So I guess you could pull out the big and easy judgement card if I told you I struggled with drug abuse and still believed and loved the Lord with all my heart?
What do you have to say about that?
I assume only because it was that way with me that it's those exact petty judgements of outward perfection that turn people away from that "Christ stuff"
I thought the separation was our proclamation that "CHRIST IS KING!"
So I guess you could pull out the big and easy judgement card if I told you I struggled with drug abuse and still believed and loved the Lord with all my heart?
What do you have to say about that?
I assume only because it was that way with me that it's those exact petty judgements of outward perfection that turn people away from that "Christ stuff"
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MY, no Humility AT ALL.
Romans 12:3 (ASV)
3 For I say, through the grace that was given me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think as to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to each man a measure of faith.
You are on a high ledge, and you have a long ways to FALL.
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Does my post say that i disagree with scriptures?
QUOTE: "No law, no order but just chaos and LAWLESSNESS. Do you follow the laws of your country? Wouldn't it be more righteous and wise to follow and obey God's laws and commands just as Jesus obeyed His Father's."
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. Revelation 22:17
If a person would CLAIM to believe yet would not repent, confess, obey and suffer for the sake of Christ, will he be saved and always saved?
...Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that YOU WILL BE SAVED—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Philippians 1:27-30
Suffering for Being a Christian ...Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you PARTICIPATE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are INSULTED because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and CONTINUE TO DO GOOD. 1 Peter 4:12-19
...and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, BECAUSE CHRIST SUFFERED FOR YOU, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:8,20-21
Did Jesus left us an example to follow? And what did we benefit from it?
If by His OBEDIENCE to God He became the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, Aren't we supposed to OBEY him if we really believe that He is our source of ETERNAL SALVATION?
....During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM. Hebrews 5:7-9
What did Jesus instruct His disciples before He went back to the Father?
...teaching them to obey whatever I have commanded you...Matthew 28:18-20
And what did the disobedient do according to Isaiah?
...for they have REJECTED THE LAW of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED THE WORD of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:20-24
And Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles gave them this warning...
...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6'7
Now who are THE LIARS that are deceiving you?
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
And John reiterated in 2 john 1:6-11
...AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (see also john 14:21-24 and matthew 19:16-30 about Jesus teachings)
As Jesus, Paul and the other apostles and disciples did warn us too.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. For FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE PROPHETS will appear and perform great signs and miracles to DECEIVE even the elect—if that were possible. Matthew 24:10-13,24
...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “IN THE LAST TIMES there will be SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:4,16-19
Are there people on this thread WHO DIVIDE YOU by teaching that OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S COMMANDS HAVE NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
Don't they reject Jesus teaching that those who will stand firm to the end ( overcomers) WILL BE SAVED which is contrary to OSAS?
Do they not refuse His warnings about deceivers or FALSE CHRISTS, PROPHETS AND TEACHERS who will appear in the last days when many will ABANDON/TURN AWAY from the FAITH?
...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
...But I am afraid that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
...DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7
QUOTE: "No law, no order but just chaos and LAWLESSNESS. Do you follow the laws of your country? Wouldn't it be more righteous and wise to follow and obey God's laws and commands just as Jesus obeyed His Father's."
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. Revelation 22:17
If a person would CLAIM to believe yet would not repent, confess, obey and suffer for the sake of Christ, will he be saved and always saved?
...Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that YOU WILL BE SAVED—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Philippians 1:27-30
Suffering for Being a Christian ...Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you PARTICIPATE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are INSULTED because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and CONTINUE TO DO GOOD. 1 Peter 4:12-19
...and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, BECAUSE CHRIST SUFFERED FOR YOU, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:8,20-21
Did Jesus left us an example to follow? And what did we benefit from it?
If by His OBEDIENCE to God He became the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, Aren't we supposed to OBEY him if we really believe that He is our source of ETERNAL SALVATION?
....During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM. Hebrews 5:7-9
What did Jesus instruct His disciples before He went back to the Father?
...teaching them to obey whatever I have commanded you...Matthew 28:18-20
And what did the disobedient do according to Isaiah?
...for they have REJECTED THE LAW of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED THE WORD of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:20-24
And Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles gave them this warning...
...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6'7
Now who are THE LIARS that are deceiving you?
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
And John reiterated in 2 john 1:6-11
...AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (see also john 14:21-24 and matthew 19:16-30 about Jesus teachings)
As Jesus, Paul and the other apostles and disciples did warn us too.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. For FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE PROPHETS will appear and perform great signs and miracles to DECEIVE even the elect—if that were possible. Matthew 24:10-13,24
...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “IN THE LAST TIMES there will be SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:4,16-19
Are there people on this thread WHO DIVIDE YOU by teaching that OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S COMMANDS HAVE NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
Don't they reject Jesus teaching that those who will stand firm to the end ( overcomers) WILL BE SAVED which is contrary to OSAS?
Do they not refuse His warnings about deceivers or FALSE CHRISTS, PROPHETS AND TEACHERS who will appear in the last days when many will ABANDON/TURN AWAY from the FAITH?
...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
...But I am afraid that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
...DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7
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Whew! Was just meditating on all my short comings and sin.
Dear heavenly Father my gratitude extends beyond my physical means of showing it. Thank you, thank you so very very much for your extended grace and justifying my filthy, filthy self through the blood of your most precious and powerful son. I love you so very very much.
Dear heavenly Father my gratitude extends beyond my physical means of showing it. Thank you, thank you so very very much for your extended grace and justifying my filthy, filthy self through the blood of your most precious and powerful son. I love you so very very much.
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