Not By Works

Is it possible to separate the two?
We were called before we were born, destined to the eternal Kingdom.
Each step is a further realisation of our living relationship with the Lord, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When one considers all that leads up to conviction and repentance, worship and faith, which never stop through
each step we take, are we not always in a place of meekness, humbleness, service, honour and praise.

Paul the apostle, followed God, and God demonstrated to him he needed Jesus.
He did not stop being a pharisee, going to the temple, being a jew, yet he brought glory to God.

Peter, a jew, thought all his background meant he could not be with gentiles until God showed him through
a vision.

It strikes me that it is the walk that is everything, and by continuing we become what God intends.
But maybe for some, their walk is the same as the walk of the world, only with a faith.

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
James 4:4-6

Jesus will spit the luke warmers out of His mouth...xox...

You put him on ignore because you were pressed to answer if Jesus was or God or not.

Why is it so hard for you to answer?

Is Jesus God?

Using this logic, you are saying no one can walk in a way that is pleasing to God.
So the apostles got it wrong.

May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you. May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thess 3:12-13

Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labour for nothing.
Phil 2:14-16

I know you can testify about your own experience, but not about others.
I am not here to say how you stand before man or God, yet you desire to declare this about everyone else.

You seem to be saying all are bound to sin and sin continuously. Please my friend, can you tell me which sins
you see in my life that I might repent of them and walk in purity and holiness with Jesus.

If you cannot, then your suggestion is false.
The enemy continually speaks as you do before the Father about the followers of Jesus.
Yet in Christ we have the victory, through walking in His ways. Do you not believe Jesus and the cross?
Has Jesus not brought change and new life to you?

Never said that. By our new nature we please God, but not with the fleshy nature when we choose to sin.

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:8)

It's the same reason why Paul wrote Romans 7:14-25

I guess your right,

Those saved WILL be sanctified, because it is god who works in them

But when you make works a requirement to be saved or maintain salvation, your in danger of preaching a different gospel.

Think of this thread like the book of galations,

Ever notice why there are no santification threads, its all about law or grace vs works? Because everyone here knows what sanctification is and what it takes, thus there is no argument. You will not find huge threads on things everone agrees on,

Again, this is a justification thread, not a sanctification thread, if you would like to try and open one, feel free, but in here, please stick to the topic.


Again, this is a justification thread, you wish to talk about christian growth open another thread.

Then by the authority of God's Word, you are lost, Fran.

He still has not answered? Lol..

Bout time for everyone to pit him on ignore, he lost any credability

Jesus has more than the "title" of God, He is FULLY GOD.

What do you mean by what now? So you are disregarding Romans 6:23 and Ephesians 2:8 which clearly state that eternal life/salvation is a gift?

So you reject the clear teaching of scripture that eternal life/salvation is a gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) and in Romans 5:15-18, FREE GIFT is mentioned three times. *In Romans 3:24, we read that we are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Distorting and perverting passages of scripture in an effort to pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not how we properly look at the N.T. as a whole. How many CONDITIONS did Jesus set on salvation in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?

In regards to Romans 8:24-25, this hope is not some "cross your fingers" hope I make it to heaven kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE (expectation of what is sure/certain) of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

*You clearly exposed yourself here.* You said that we cannot claim the hope of salvation until we have EARNED it! Busted! Salvation by works.

There are 3 tenses to salvation, which often get mixed up by works-salvationists. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification). 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification). We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification). What takes place in the future is glorification (1 Peter 1:9) "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" which is not to be confused with justification (Romans 5:1) "having been justified by faith" - which is past tense, with ongoing present results.

Salvation is a GIFT (Romans 3:24; 5:15-18; 6:23;, Ephesians 2:8) that we FREELY ACCEPT, yet you turn salvation into a prize or reward (something we work for and earn) which is a clear case of salvation by works!

How do people who know Jesus and follow Him actually walk without sin, in your view?

Is sin always present, or do we find cleansing through repentance?

The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

If none ever are righteous, then there is no powerful or effective prayer.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, are you saying, we are not forgiven and cleansed at all?
If we are purified from all unrighteousness, surely we are then righteous?

In their flesh, they fully can't. Which is why a Christian's destiny is determined by the new nature in Christ.

Read Romans 8.

We have been made righteous (Romans 5:1). We don't have a righteousness of our own via the flesh. Our prayers are effective due to our new nature.

I'll answer that question with a question: Is all sin, past, present, and future, already completely forgiven?

If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and there is no truh in us

We need to stop thinking of sin as certain actions, and think of it is a heart issue.

The jews did that thinking they obeyed the law so they were ok, they were not ok, its why Jesus still had to come, we are not saved or made righteous by doing works of righteousness Titus 3, but by gods mercy, he washes us. We cant wash ourselves

Anything i do to serve self is sin, and we all do it every day.

Can you at least be honest with us and reveal if you are a Jehovah's Witness, or a Mormon?

Salvation has conditions - you need to hear it, you need to respond, you need to confess, you need to act, you need to
repent, you need to believe, you need to trust, you need to obey, you need to follow, you need to love, you need to abide

Think of each denomination and the statements of faith which qualify one as a member of that church.
Start a conversation with a believer, and cross one, just one of their lines. Suddenly one is not "saved" or part of their
group or fellowship, but an outsider.

Maybe people have gone to church so long, the long list is obvious, so ofcourse everyone follows it, and so salvation has
no conditions.

It is like saying life goes on without effort - except, breathing, eating, drinking, moving, having support, shelter, relationships,
sleep etc. The words actually mean something else. Life goes on without us having to know all the mechanisms other than
doing the basics.

In this light, salvation cannot be earnt, ie. balancing out good deeds to outweigh our sinful deeds.
But how does a worldly sinful person become a mature brother or sister in Christ?
And what is a mature man or woman in the Lord? A minister in large conferences with their personal jet?

Sin is a heart issue. What do you mean?

Then it's not a gift at all, and grace is not unmerited.

Amen Magenta! How does one "earn" a FREE GIFT? They don't. Otherwise, it would not be a free gift.

Amen! ALL the praise, glory and honor goes to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So what did WE earn? Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death..!

BUT the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.