Can We Eliminate the Divide Between Calvinism and Arminianism?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 27, 2019
45
9
8
#1
Hi, Everyone -

I proffer that the answer to the question I posed is "yes", and the reason I decided to join this Christian chat service is to get your reaction to my approach on this subject. Perhaps, some will respond to my approach with a convincing and compelling rebuttal to demonstrate the ways in which my approach is flawed.

In the world of physics there are two irreconcilable disciplines: "quantum mechanics" and "relativity". The rules found in quantum mechanics do not apply in relativity, and, likewise, the rules found in relativity do not apply to quantum mechanics. This divide has led scientists to attempt to define a theory that unifies these two disciplines . Despite being unsuccessful for decades, the effort to unite the two approaches continues today.

In light of Scripture, it would seem Christians would have within themselves a similar desire to unite those who adhere to either of these theological traditions. For example, Jesus prayed in John 17 the following:

I do not pray for these [Jesus' 11 disciples] alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

This text shows that our unity is not only Jesus' desire, but has two additional services: to be a testimony to non-believers that our Father did send Jesus and that our Father loves us just as He loved Jesus. Consequently, any inducement to separate ourselves from each other on the basis of man-made theological traditions (i.e., Calvinism, and Arminianism) are to be assiduously rejected.

From my experience, Christians who are expanding their understanding of Christendom are told that Christendom is split into two camps: Calvinist and Arminian; no other options are mentioned. Because of taking debate classes during my undergraduate training, I almost immediately thought to myself that the potential exists for the two-camp presentation of Christendom to be a false dilemma, and, based on my study of Scripture, it is that. I’d like to share with you below a paper I wrote in 2018 that employs an interpretive framework that demonstrates the two-camp narrative to be false thereby destroying the separation between these two camps. If you can demonstrate how the paper fails to achieve this objective, then I’d like you to tell me. Thanks!

My Perspective on Arminianism and Calvinism

Both Arminianism and Calvinism are wrong in their explanations of how the salvation process works. These theological traditions neither recognize nor address the overarching role Isaiah’s curse had in producing significant differences in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel as overwhelmingly demonstrated in Scripture. Consequently, both of these traditions are defective, unreliable, inaccurate, and unbiblical.

A Simple Salvation Process for All

The salvation process is simple:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:9-13).

Notice in Romans 11:5-10 how this simple process contains a prerequisite for the Jews - specifically, “election”. The election prerequisite is strictly for and to Jews; Scripture never describes Gentiles as having this prerequisite. This prerequisite is necessary because the Jews were handicapped by a curse that prevented them from believing the Gospel.

Isaiah’s Curse

The Jews were cursed through Isaiah, and this curse formed the basis for their needing to be elected by God unto salvation:

And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’

“Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed”
(Isaiah 6:9-10).

The above curse was quoted by Jesus when describing the Jewish condition to His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17. Consequently, the curse significantly impacted the way in which Jesus communicated to the Jews: in parables only. In addition, the same curse was quoted by Paul when contrasting the Jewish and Gentile responses to the Gospel in Acts 28:17-29. Consequently, the curse rendered all Jews as damned and bereft of salvation unless God chose to break the curse on those Jews He chose for salvation, per Romans 11:5-10. Even the prophets were blinded, according to Isaiah 29:10. Fortunately, the curse had an expiration date (Isaiah 6:11-13) and expired upon the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The Electoral Process that Breaks Isaiah’s Curse on the Jews

In order for Isaiah’s curse on the Jews to be broken so they could be saved, God chose (or, elected) which of the Jews to save:

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not … at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace … What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:1-7).

In the above passage we find that:
  • all Jews were blinded from salvation,
  • some Jews were elected unto salvation, and
  • those who were elected comprised a remnant.
This “blinding and election” action was directed toward Jews and not the Gentiles:
  • “Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded”.
  • “Go and tell this people … Keep on seeing, but do not perceive … and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes ...”.
Election was an ongoing process throughout Jewish history as described in Romans 9:6-13. It was still in effect in Paul’s day as described in Romans 11:5 and chronicled by Lydia’s conversion in Acts 16:13-15. But since, as of today, the curse has expired, the electoral process for Jews has been abandoned (Isaiah 29:17-24).

Significant Differences Between How Jews and Gentiles Respond to the Gospel

In light of Isaiah’s curse on the Jews and the lack of any such curse placed on the Gentiles, one would naturally expect a significant difference in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel; and this is exactly what one finds in Scripture. The following Scriptural references demonstrate this difference:
  • Acts 13:42-52
  • Acts 17:1-9
  • Acts 18:5-6
  • Acts 22:17-21
  • Acts 28:17-29
  • Romans 9:30-33
  • Romans 11:7-10
  • Romans 11:25
The above-referenced Scriptures combined with Isaiah’s curse sufficiently establish the significant difference between the way in which Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel and the reason for the different responses between the two groups. And it is at this point that the fundamental flaw inherent in both the Arminian and Calvinist theological traditions expresses itself: a complete ignorance of Isaiah’s curse and the curse’s subsequent effect on how Jews responded to the Gospel. As a consequence, Calvinism erroneously attributes election in every salvation instance, and Arminianism attributes free will in every salvation instance; and both traditions are historically wrong.

Isaiah’s Curse in John’s Gospel

John 12:37-41 is definitive and emphatic in its treatment of the Jewish inability to come to faith in Christ as a consequence of Isaiah’s curse:

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?

And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,

Lest they should see with their eyes,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should heal them.”

These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.


In summary, we have Isaiah, Jesus, Paul, and the apostle John explaining consistently that the majority of Jews will not come to faith in Christ because of Isaiah’s curse. This curse never affected Gentiles; it was strictly a Jewish affair.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the salvation process described in Scripture is more complex than either of the descriptions proffered by Arminianism and Calvinism. Consequently, both traditions are inharmonious with Scripture and, thus, defective. A candid review of God’s word reveals that a prerequisite for salvation existed for Jews prior to the expiration of Isaiah’s curse, and this prerequisite was discontinued after Isaiah’s curse expired in AD 70. Therefore, Jews were elected for salvation prior to the curse’s expiration and were given free will in choosing salvation after the curse’s expiration. Gentiles have never had this experience. Instead, Gentiles have always enjoyed free will in their salvation experience.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
12,348
10,042
113
#2
A warm welcome and nice to meet you! You should pose your Q in the BD forum for a better response. Hang around, you'll figure things out here, God bless!
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
929
113
68
#3
Hi, Everyone -

I proffer that the answer to the question I posed is "yes", and the reason I decided to join this Christian chat service is to get your reaction to my approach on this subject. Perhaps, some will respond to my approach with a convincing and compelling rebuttal to demonstrate the ways in which my approach is flawed.

In the world of physics there are two irreconcilable disciplines: "quantum mechanics" and "relativity". The rules found in quantum mechanics do not apply in relativity, and, likewise, the rules found in relativity do not apply to quantum mechanics. This divide has led scientists to attempt to define a theory that unifies these two disciplines . Despite being unsuccessful for decades, the effort to unite the two approaches continues today.

In light of Scripture, it would seem Christians would have within themselves a similar desire to unite those who adhere to either of these theological traditions. For example, Jesus prayed in John 17 the following:

I do not pray for these [Jesus' 11 disciples] alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

This text shows that our unity is not only Jesus' desire, but has two additional services: to be a testimony to non-believers that our Father did send Jesus and that our Father loves us just as He loved Jesus. Consequently, any inducement to separate ourselves from each other on the basis of man-made theological traditions (i.e., Calvinism, and Arminianism) are to be assiduously rejected.

From my experience, Christians who are expanding their understanding of Christendom are told that Christendom is split into two camps: Calvinist and Arminian; no other options are mentioned. Because of taking debate classes during my undergraduate training, I almost immediately thought to myself that the potential exists for the two-camp presentation of Christendom to be a false dilemma, and, based on my study of Scripture, it is that. I’d like to share with you below a paper I wrote in 2018 that employs an interpretive framework that demonstrates the two-camp narrative to be false thereby destroying the separation between these two camps. If you can demonstrate how the paper fails to achieve this objective, then I’d like you to tell me. Thanks!

My Perspective on Arminianism and Calvinism

Both Arminianism and Calvinism are wrong in their explanations of how the salvation process works. These theological traditions neither recognize nor address the overarching role Isaiah’s curse had in producing significant differences in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel as overwhelmingly demonstrated in Scripture. Consequently, both of these traditions are defective, unreliable, inaccurate, and unbiblical.

A Simple Salvation Process for All

The salvation process is simple:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:9-13).

Notice in Romans 11:5-10 how this simple process contains a prerequisite for the Jews - specifically, “election”. The election prerequisite is strictly for and to Jews; Scripture never describes Gentiles as having this prerequisite. This prerequisite is necessary because the Jews were handicapped by a curse that prevented them from believing the Gospel.

Isaiah’s Curse

The Jews were cursed through Isaiah, and this curse formed the basis for their needing to be elected by God unto salvation:

And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’


“Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed”
(Isaiah 6:9-10).

The above curse was quoted by Jesus when describing the Jewish condition to His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17. Consequently, the curse significantly impacted the way in which Jesus communicated to the Jews: in parables only. In addition, the same curse was quoted by Paul when contrasting the Jewish and Gentile responses to the Gospel in Acts 28:17-29. Consequently, the curse rendered all Jews as damned and bereft of salvation unless God chose to break the curse on those Jews He chose for salvation, per Romans 11:5-10. Even the prophets were blinded, according to Isaiah 29:10. Fortunately, the curse had an expiration date (Isaiah 6:11-13) and expired upon the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The Electoral Process that Breaks Isaiah’s Curse on the Jews

In order for Isaiah’s curse on the Jews to be broken so they could be saved, God chose (or, elected) which of the Jews to save:

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not … at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace … What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:1-7).

In the above passage we find that:
  • all Jews were blinded from salvation,
  • some Jews were elected unto salvation, and
  • those who were elected comprised a remnant.
This “blinding and election” action was directed toward Jews and not the Gentiles:
  • “Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded”.
  • “Go and tell this people … Keep on seeing, but do not perceive … and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes ...”.
Election was an ongoing process throughout Jewish history as described in Romans 9:6-13. It was still in effect in Paul’s day as described in Romans 11:5 and chronicled by Lydia’s conversion in Acts 16:13-15. But since, as of today, the curse has expired, the electoral process for Jews has been abandoned (Isaiah 29:17-24).

Significant Differences Between How Jews and Gentiles Respond to the Gospel

In light of Isaiah’s curse on the Jews and the lack of any such curse placed on the Gentiles, one would naturally expect a significant difference in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel; and this is exactly what one finds in Scripture. The following Scriptural references demonstrate this difference:
  • Acts 13:42-52
  • Acts 17:1-9
  • Acts 18:5-6
  • Acts 22:17-21
  • Acts 28:17-29
  • Romans 9:30-33
  • Romans 11:7-10
  • Romans 11:25
The above-referenced Scriptures combined with Isaiah’s curse sufficiently establish the significant difference between the way in which Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel and the reason for the different responses between the two groups. And it is at this point that the fundamental flaw inherent in both the Arminian and Calvinist theological traditions expresses itself: a complete ignorance of Isaiah’s curse and the curse’s subsequent effect on how Jews responded to the Gospel. As a consequence, Calvinism erroneously attributes election in every salvation instance, and Arminianism attributes free will in every salvation instance; and both traditions are historically wrong.

Isaiah’s Curse in John’s Gospel

John 12:37-41 is definitive and emphatic in its treatment of the Jewish inability to come to faith in Christ as a consequence of Isaiah’s curse:

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?

And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,

Lest they should see with their eyes,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should heal them.”

These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

In summary, we have Isaiah, Jesus, Paul, and the apostle John explaining consistently that the majority of Jews will not come to faith in Christ because of Isaiah’s curse. This curse never affected Gentiles; it was strictly a Jewish affair.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the salvation process described in Scripture is more complex than either of the descriptions proffered by Arminianism and Calvinism. Consequently, both traditions are inharmonious with Scripture and, thus, defective. A candid review of God’s word reveals that a prerequisite for salvation existed for Jews prior to the expiration of Isaiah’s curse, and this prerequisite was discontinued after Isaiah’s curse expired in AD 70. Therefore, Jews were elected for salvation prior to the curse’s expiration and were given free will in choosing salvation after the curse’s expiration. Gentiles have never had this experience. Instead, Gentiles have always enjoyed free will in their salvation experience.
xjohnson, good to have you welcome to the CC! 🙏🤩
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,099
113
#5
Hi, Everyone -

I proffer that the answer to the question I posed is "yes", and the reason I decided to join this Christian chat service is to get your reaction to my approach on this subject. Perhaps, some will respond to my approach with a convincing and compelling rebuttal to demonstrate the ways in which my approach is flawed.

In the world of physics there are two irreconcilable disciplines: "quantum mechanics" and "relativity". The rules found in quantum mechanics do not apply in relativity, and, likewise, the rules found in relativity do not apply to quantum mechanics. This divide has led scientists to attempt to define a theory that unifies these two disciplines . Despite being unsuccessful for decades, the effort to unite the two approaches continues today.

In light of Scripture, it would seem Christians would have within themselves a similar desire to unite those who adhere to either of these theological traditions. For example, Jesus prayed in John 17 the following:

I do not pray for these [Jesus' 11 disciples] alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

This text shows that our unity is not only Jesus' desire, but has two additional services: to be a testimony to non-believers that our Father did send Jesus and that our Father loves us just as He loved Jesus. Consequently, any inducement to separate ourselves from each other on the basis of man-made theological traditions (i.e., Calvinism, and Arminianism) are to be assiduously rejected.

From my experience, Christians who are expanding their understanding of Christendom are told that Christendom is split into two camps: Calvinist and Arminian; no other options are mentioned. Because of taking debate classes during my undergraduate training, I almost immediately thought to myself that the potential exists for the two-camp presentation of Christendom to be a false dilemma, and, based on my study of Scripture, it is that. I’d like to share with you below a paper I wrote in 2018 that employs an interpretive framework that demonstrates the two-camp narrative to be false thereby destroying the separation between these two camps. If you can demonstrate how the paper fails to achieve this objective, then I’d like you to tell me. Thanks!

My Perspective on Arminianism and Calvinism

Both Arminianism and Calvinism are wrong in their explanations of how the salvation process works. These theological traditions neither recognize nor address the overarching role Isaiah’s curse had in producing significant differences in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel as overwhelmingly demonstrated in Scripture. Consequently, both of these traditions are defective, unreliable, inaccurate, and unbiblical.

A Simple Salvation Process for All

The salvation process is simple:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:9-13).

Notice in Romans 11:5-10 how this simple process contains a prerequisite for the Jews - specifically, “election”. The election prerequisite is strictly for and to Jews; Scripture never describes Gentiles as having this prerequisite. This prerequisite is necessary because the Jews were handicapped by a curse that prevented them from believing the Gospel.

Isaiah’s Curse

The Jews were cursed through Isaiah, and this curse formed the basis for their needing to be elected by God unto salvation:

And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’


“Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed”
(Isaiah 6:9-10).

The above curse was quoted by Jesus when describing the Jewish condition to His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17. Consequently, the curse significantly impacted the way in which Jesus communicated to the Jews: in parables only. In addition, the same curse was quoted by Paul when contrasting the Jewish and Gentile responses to the Gospel in Acts 28:17-29. Consequently, the curse rendered all Jews as damned and bereft of salvation unless God chose to break the curse on those Jews He chose for salvation, per Romans 11:5-10. Even the prophets were blinded, according to Isaiah 29:10. Fortunately, the curse had an expiration date (Isaiah 6:11-13) and expired upon the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The Electoral Process that Breaks Isaiah’s Curse on the Jews

In order for Isaiah’s curse on the Jews to be broken so they could be saved, God chose (or, elected) which of the Jews to save:

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not … at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace … What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:1-7).

In the above passage we find that:
  • all Jews were blinded from salvation,
  • some Jews were elected unto salvation, and
  • those who were elected comprised a remnant.
This “blinding and election” action was directed toward Jews and not the Gentiles:
  • “Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded”.
  • “Go and tell this people … Keep on seeing, but do not perceive … and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes ...”.
Election was an ongoing process throughout Jewish history as described in Romans 9:6-13. It was still in effect in Paul’s day as described in Romans 11:5 and chronicled by Lydia’s conversion in Acts 16:13-15. But since, as of today, the curse has expired, the electoral process for Jews has been abandoned (Isaiah 29:17-24).

Significant Differences Between How Jews and Gentiles Respond to the Gospel

In light of Isaiah’s curse on the Jews and the lack of any such curse placed on the Gentiles, one would naturally expect a significant difference in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel; and this is exactly what one finds in Scripture. The following Scriptural references demonstrate this difference:
  • Acts 13:42-52
  • Acts 17:1-9
  • Acts 18:5-6
  • Acts 22:17-21
  • Acts 28:17-29
  • Romans 9:30-33
  • Romans 11:7-10
  • Romans 11:25
The above-referenced Scriptures combined with Isaiah’s curse sufficiently establish the significant difference between the way in which Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel and the reason for the different responses between the two groups. And it is at this point that the fundamental flaw inherent in both the Arminian and Calvinist theological traditions expresses itself: a complete ignorance of Isaiah’s curse and the curse’s subsequent effect on how Jews responded to the Gospel. As a consequence, Calvinism erroneously attributes election in every salvation instance, and Arminianism attributes free will in every salvation instance; and both traditions are historically wrong.

Isaiah’s Curse in John’s Gospel

John 12:37-41 is definitive and emphatic in its treatment of the Jewish inability to come to faith in Christ as a consequence of Isaiah’s curse:

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?

And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,

Lest they should see with their eyes,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should heal them.”

These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

In summary, we have Isaiah, Jesus, Paul, and the apostle John explaining consistently that the majority of Jews will not come to faith in Christ because of Isaiah’s curse. This curse never affected Gentiles; it was strictly a Jewish affair.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the salvation process described in Scripture is more complex than either of the descriptions proffered by Arminianism and Calvinism. Consequently, both traditions are inharmonious with Scripture and, thus, defective. A candid review of God’s word reveals that a prerequisite for salvation existed for Jews prior to the expiration of Isaiah’s curse, and this prerequisite was discontinued after Isaiah’s curse expired in AD 70. Therefore, Jews were elected for salvation prior to the curse’s expiration and were given free will in choosing salvation after the curse’s expiration. Gentiles have never had this experience. Instead, Gentiles have always enjoyed free will in their salvation experience.
Yes, hello, and welcome, Johnson!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#6
This topic belongs in the Bible Discussion forum.. Welcome to CC.. :)