Can We Eliminate the Divide Between Calvinism and Arminianism?

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Feb 27, 2019
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#1
Hi, Everyone -

I proffer that the answer to the question I posed is "yes", and the reason I decided to join this Christian chat service is to get your reaction to my approach on this subject. Perhaps, some will respond to my approach with a convincing and compelling rebuttal to demonstrate the ways in which my approach is flawed.

In the world of physics there are two irreconcilable disciplines: "quantum mechanics" and "relativity". The rules found in quantum mechanics do not apply in relativity, and, likewise, the rules found in relativity do not apply to quantum mechanics. This divide has led scientists to attempt to define a theory that unifies these two disciplines . Despite being unsuccessful for decades, the effort to unite the two approaches continues today.

In light of Scripture, it would seem Christians would have within themselves a similar desire to unite those who adhere to either of these theological traditions. For example, Jesus prayed in John 17 the following:

I do not pray for these [Jesus' 11 disciples] alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

This text shows that our unity is not only Jesus' desire, but has two additional services: to be a testimony to non-believers that our Father did send Jesus and that our Father loves us just as He loved Jesus. Consequently, any inducement to separate ourselves from each other on the basis of man-made theological traditions (i.e., Calvinism, and Arminianism) are to be assiduously rejected.

From my experience, Christians who are expanding their understanding of Christendom are told that Christendom is split into two camps: Calvinist and Arminian; no other options are mentioned. Because of taking debate classes during my undergraduate training, I almost immediately thought to myself that the potential exists for the two-camp presentation of Christendom to be a false dilemma, and, based on my study of Scripture, it is that. I’d like to share with you below a paper I wrote in 2018 that employs an interpretive framework that demonstrates the two-camp narrative to be false thereby destroying the separation between these two camps. If you can demonstrate how the paper fails to achieve this objective, then I’d like you to tell me. Thanks!


My Perspective on Arminianism and Calvinism

Both Arminianism and Calvinism are wrong in their explanations of how the salvation process works. These theological traditions neither recognize nor address the overarching role Isaiah’s curse had in producing significant differences in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel as overwhelmingly demonstrated in Scripture. Consequently, both of these traditions are defective, unreliable, inaccurate, and unbiblical.


A Simple Salvation Process for All

The salvation process is simple:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:9-13).

Notice in Romans 11:5-10 how this simple process contains a prerequisite for the Jews - specifically, “election”. The election prerequisite is strictly for and to Jews; Scripture never describes Gentiles as having this prerequisite. This prerequisite is necessary because the Jews were handicapped by a curse that prevented them from believing the Gospel.


Isaiah’s Curse

The Jews were cursed through Isaiah, and this curse formed the basis for their needing to be elected by God unto salvation:

And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’


“Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed”
(Isaiah 6:9-10).

The above curse was quoted by Jesus when describing the Jewish condition to His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17. Consequently, the curse significantly impacted the way in which Jesus communicated to the Jews: in parables only. In addition, the same curse was quoted by Paul when contrasting the Jewish and Gentile responses to the Gospel in Acts 28:17-29. Consequently, the curse rendered all Jews as damned and bereft of salvation unless God chose to break the curse on those Jews He chose for salvation, per Romans 11:5-10. Even the prophets were blinded, according to Isaiah 29:10. Fortunately, the curse had an expiration date (Isaiah 6:11-13) and expired upon the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.


The Electoral Process that Breaks Isaiah’s Curse on the Jews

In order for Isaiah’s curse on the Jews to be broken so they could be saved, God chose (or, elected) which of the Jews to save:

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not … at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace … What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:1-7).

In the above passage we find that:

  • all Jews were blinded from salvation,
  • some Jews were elected unto salvation, and
  • those who were elected comprised a remnant.
This “blinding and election” action was directed toward Jews and not the Gentiles:

  • “Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded”.
  • “Go and tell this people … Keep on seeing, but do not perceive … and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes ...”.
Election was an ongoing process throughout Jewish history as described in Romans 9:6-13. It was still in effect in Paul’s day as described in Romans 11:5 and chronicled by Lydia’s conversion in Acts 16:13-15. But since, as of today, the curse has expired, the electoral process for Jews has been abandoned (Isaiah 29:17-24).


Significant Differences Between How Jews and Gentiles Respond to the Gospel

In light of Isaiah’s curse on the Jews and the lack of any such curse placed on the Gentiles, one would naturally expect a significant difference in the way Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel; and this is exactly what one finds in Scripture. The following Scriptural references demonstrate this difference:

  • Acts 13:42-52
  • Acts 17:1-9
  • Acts 18:5-6
  • Acts 22:17-21
  • Acts 28:17-29
  • Romans 9:30-33
  • Romans 11:7-10
  • Romans 11:25
The above-referenced Scriptures combined with Isaiah’s curse sufficiently establish the significant difference between the way in which Jews and Gentiles responded to the Gospel and the reason for the different responses between the two groups. And it is at this point that the fundamental flaw inherent in both the Arminian and Calvinist theological traditions expresses itself: a complete ignorance of Isaiah’s curse and the curse’s subsequent effect on how Jews responded to the Gospel. As a consequence, Calvinism erroneously attributes election in every salvation instance, and Arminianism attributes free will in every salvation instance; and both traditions are historically wrong.


Isaiah’s Curse in John’s Gospel

John 12:37-41 is definitive and emphatic in its treatment of the Jewish inability to come to faith in Christ as a consequence of Isaiah’s curse:

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?

And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,

Lest they should see with their eyes,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should heal them.”

These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

In summary, we have Isaiah, Jesus, Paul, and the apostle John explaining consistently that the majority of Jews will not come to faith in Christ because of Isaiah’s curse. This curse never affected Gentiles; it was strictly a Jewish affair.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the salvation process described in Scripture is more complex than either of the descriptions proffered by Arminianism and Calvinism. Consequently, both traditions are inharmonious with Scripture and, thus, defective. A candid review of God’s word reveals that a prerequisite for salvation existed for Jews prior to the expiration of Isaiah’s curse, and this prerequisite was discontinued after Isaiah’s curse expired in AD 70. Therefore, Jews were elected for salvation prior to the curse’s expiration and were given free will in choosing salvation after the curse’s expiration. Gentiles have never had this experience. Instead, Gentiles have always enjoyed free will in their salvation experience.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#2
Welcome to CC. I admire your optimism. :)
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#3
Hmmmmmm! Interesting theory about the curse from Isaiah. I don't have the time, or the context, or the inspiration to debate or discuss the validity of your ideas about this curse.

But the idea that this is the solution to the Arminian/Calvinism issue? Well, let me just ask a few questions:

(1) What does mean in Eph. 1: 4,5 ? "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."
What does this teach about predestination?

(2) What does John 10:27-29 mean? "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one.""

If we can reconcile Calvinism and Arminianism, I will be the first to jump on the wagon. I do not consider myself one or the other anyway. Let's just all agree with what the Bible says . . . . . . ;)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#4
Let's just all agree with what the Bible says
Correct. While the OP brings up an interesting point, the truth is that the two camps will never be in agreement. The third option -- which avoids both theologies and sticks with the Bible is the true answer. But Calvinists are so strongly indoctrinated that Scripture means little or nothing, and what they use to support their gospel has a totally different meaning. For example in John 3:16-17 does not mean * the world* but the elect.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#5
Calvinists are so strongly indoctrinated that Scripture means little or nothing, and what they use to support their gospel has a totally different meaning.
Hi Nehemiah6, the "Gospel" message is exactly the same for Arminians and Calvinists, at least for all of the ones that I've had the pleasure of knowing, hearing and/or working with over the years anyway .

As for the basis of their beliefs/teachings, it's all found in the Bible alone (both for Calvinists and Arminians).

This is why both the Southern Baptists (as well the denomination that I'm now associated with .. Evangelical Free) leave it up to the individual to decide which systematic theology to follow, because there is so much evidence in the Bible to support the position of both camps.

For example in John 3:16-17 does not mean * the world* but the elect.
I know many Calvinists and I have never heard or read any of them teach this about "the world" in John 3. That said, the group known as the "elect" are the only members of the "whosoever believes" group in John 3:16, but that's just as true for Arminians as it is for Calvinists.

~Deut
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#6
Am going to posit both are right but the thing they have wrong is each other calling each other names.

Instead we all should be follwing Jesusism.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#7
Am going to posit both are right but the thing they have wrong is each other calling each other names.

Instead we all should be follwing Jesusism.
But where's the fun in that ;)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#8
Whaha are you saying following Jesus isnt fun..

Its like that whole debate team aniston and team jolie again. If I recall there was no team pitt.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
Hi Nehemiah6, the "Gospel" message is exactly the same for Arminians and Calvinists, at least for all of the ones that I've had the pleasure of knowing...
I won's speak for Arminians (since I am not in that camp). But how can it be the same when Calvinists claim that Christ died only the the elect, whereas the Bible says that He died for the sins of the whole world? And that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation, when the Bible says that God now commands all men everywhere to repent. These are vastly different Gospels.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#10
Brad chose me
No I chose brad
No but you stole brad

Gwyneth chimes in I was first.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#11
I would say in order to bring Arminianism and Calvinism closer together. Eliminate walking by sight after the natural course of this world.. No division between a Jew and a Gentile . God is not served by human hands. He can move a person working in a believer or working bringing His word through one who believes not (no faith). His voice is the voice of faith, not the voice of prophets in whom he applies his thoughts to their tongue or moves them to bring his interpretation of the whole word of God as it is written. .In that way we preach Christ not our own selves.

The gospel has nothing to so with the flesh either, we are not saved in respect to it as that seen the temporal and neither do we wrestle against it flesh and blood. . Its what all people naturally do with the flesh of men try and make it about the temporal . As Christians we are to know no man after the flesh we have been given the ability to walk by the light of faith. Eliminate walking by sight in respect to flesh bring Arminianism and Calvinism closer together.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#12
Whaha are you saying following Jesus isnt fun..

Its like that whole debate team aniston and team jolie again. If I recall there was no team pitt.
They were just Pitted against each other.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#14
Ya. If all three got together it would be like...a trinity?

No wait.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#15
What about Gentiles who don't believe the Gospel?

If they have no curse placed upon them then how come they don't believe?

How come some do?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#16
I won's speak for Arminians (since I am not in that camp). But how can it be the same when Calvinists claim that Christ died only the the elect, whereas the Bible says that He died for the sins of the whole world? And that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation, when the Bible says that God now commands all men everywhere to repent. These are vastly different Gospels.
If Christ died for the sins of the whole world then everyone is saved regardless of their belief and there is no point in theology at all.

But the bible is obviously clear in the fact that only Believers are saved. So we have to come to the conclusion that the Lord Jesus died for the sins of the elect. The sins of the unbeliever still condemn them.


I know lots of people hate Calvinism because they get their feelings hurt.

But I haven't heard anyone say they hate Calvinism because they think everyone who was ever born and ever will be born is automatically saved by the death of Christ regardless of their beliefs or actions.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#17
It just too confusing I wouldnt really bother with either. I mean me personally.
If you want to be in one camp or the other and fight about it you can make all these threads about it and argue away but never come to any conclusion cos both are only partly right.

I do know that calvinists tend to think the elect means them thats half the trouble, they dont consider it means israel who God actually chose as His people his firstborn son...they read the Bible a bit backwards. Gentiles are grafted in through Jesus. As for arminians they are reluctant to agree that God does the choosing first and tend to go for faith by works. Calvinists insits its grace and works have nothing to do with it. Well its actually simple from Gods point of view what His works are that Hes going to do.

Yea Im wondering if brad Pitt just should have left anniston and Jolie alone and gone with gwyneth. Maybe he likes them all. They all want him but they all dont want the other to have him.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#18
' Jesus loves you, but Im his favourite. '

I saw that somewhere on t shirt. I think a calvinist would wear that.

The arminist would wear one that says 'I have decided to follow Jesus.'
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#19
This is the most unusual debate I've ever witnessed involving Calvinism and Arminianism :) I'm confused though. Is Pitt the Calvinist, and Jolie and Aniston the Arminians? Or is Paltrow actually the Calvinist and the other three are Arminian? Something else :unsure:
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#20
Pitt is God
Anniston is calvinist. Jolie is arminist. And paltrow must be ?

No wait. Um.

Jolie is Jezebel. Anniston is Bathsheba. PAltrow is Rachel. And Pitt is confused.