Showing your faith by your works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
AMEN. Acts 26:20- but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
Performing deeds appropriate to repentance is the fruit of repentance. (Matthew 3:8)

Matthew 3:8 (AMPC) - Bring forth fruit that is consistent with repentance [let your lives prove your change of heart].
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
I agree with the construction you have made. We are covered by Christ, in dwelt by His word and Spirit,
transformed through the cross and cleansed in our hearts and consciences.

But then I have met people who claim the view you are expressing and call me evil, for expressing our
walk in love and righteousness. I talk of having an open heart, of feeling remorse and sadness for sin,
of getting right with God before the cross, walking humbly and knowing His fellowship, yet I am called
deceived leading people to hell.

I am told that believers will obey Jesus because they have been forgiven, and then that Gods demands are
impossible and a burden they cannot carry. That the sermon on the mount is to just show failure and not
give hope for real victory.

There is a lot of double talk and lying about what people really are and their failures.
Satans accusations are true, in your description, but Jesus ignores them because they are the flesh so not
truly you.

That is not the gospel or reality. That is gnosticism and splitting the soul into two.
Once you start down this road, you may as well throw the bible away, which I showed a picture of, and
people agreed that is what they were doing. Very odd, because God does not declare things to be thrown
away.

View attachment 196808
They call you evil because they do not understand the difference between what saves (faith) and the fruits of faith which necessarily follow. And they think a root without branches or fruit constitutes Christianity. But that was never Jesus' intention. And if they are serious about their relationship with Jesus, Jesus' intention should be the most important thing in the world for them

We do not say bear fruit to be saved or remain saved. That is a strawman built by many for whatever reason. We bear fruit because we are in the root.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit
The short end of the stick---->to maintain fellowship (1st John 1) the bible is equally clear that grace out bounds our sin, the spirit that has been born of incorruptible seed does not sin, we are chastened for sin (if allowed to persist) but our eternal destiny is secure as a son of God.......
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Performing deeds appropriate to repentance is the fruit of repentance. (Matthew 3:8)

Matthew 3:8 (AMPC) - Bring forth fruit that is consistent with repentance [let your lives prove your change of heart].
Amen. No fruit, no repentance. That is what appalls me about some who say that not all Christians bear fruit or that fruit is unnecessary.

The goodness of God leads you to repentance.

Repentance and faith go together.

Saved by faith.

after you are saved, you bring forth fruit

Then God prunes you

and you bring forth much fruit.

Fruit that remains.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
Yes, and those that don't "bring forth fruit that is consistent with repentance" probably haven't repented.

That is the sad thing. Many think they are saved, yet have not repented. And repentance always accompanies genuine faith.
Repentance/faith is the root of salvation and works/deeds appropriate to repentance are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Repentance/faith is the root of salvation and works/deeds appropriate to repentance are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
Yep, root, branch, and fruit

Jesus is the root. We are the branches, faith which works by love is the fruit.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit
Who said we do not sin? Why do people keep making up stuff people do nto say in order to support their own position? Do they think they really helps them?

When you were born, did your father and mother not give you instructions on thi gs to do and things to not do.? Or did they just say ok now your born, go live your life? And oh by the way, If you want to continue to be my child. You better obey my commands, and if you do mess up. You better come to me and beg for my forgiveness because on the day you do not do that, I will find out, and I will cast you out and you will no longer be my child..

Of course people do not say or even do this, Yet they want to preach and get people to believe this is exactly what God does!! SMH :rolleyes:
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
None of this is true. Works are as much a part of Gods work in our hearts as is His presence.

How could God be present in us, and we not want to show it? It is like saying you have the
greatest gift in the universe but want to keep it to yourself and not shout for joy.

How many parents who just have had a child, keep quiet about it? None unless they want to
hide some sin involved or shame.

The glory of God is His life always brings fruit, because it is the mere presence of God that
brings His fruit.
Fruit and works are the effects of salvation. If you say it that way, you and Pen Ed are in agreement.

You and I see "a changed heart" as part of salvation. Salvation to us is not just justification and then walk around with the same heart. And a changed heart results in a changed life.

So when God saves us, He not only justifies us, He changes our heart. A changed heart is part of salvation. Salvation is a work of God, God changes our heart (regenerates us) when we are saved, and that means a changed heart is part of salvation, ie one of the works of God that He performs when He saves us.

Can one be justified if he is not regenerated? I think both are similtaneous.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Exactly. Anything other than what the bible teaches can lead to false doctrine. Man made doctrine. Someone pulled all the scriptures to satisfy the ego and enough to make them believe they are good. Send the collection plate around one more time. The type that make a person feel good about themselves so that they don't need to change. Jesus paid the price Amen? So that we wont have to. Amen. They can receive this and walk out the church like nothing ever happened. "Saved".

True repentance is a change of heart. Repentance makes you take inventory of your life and see that you need God. We have been living all wrong, and we need Jesus. Take over God! I give my life to You. Surrendering to God. Leaving all our sinful desires behind and letting God into our lives. Wanting to be changed. The Holy Spirit can then help the person and begin to work on them. The bible is the truth. All the answers are in the bible. Not in man. Quit following man made doctrine.
Lol

Then why go leglists who think God kicks people out of his family for not living up to some standard THINK they are so holy and righteous? And make them think they are BETTER then they really are? (Remember, Gods standard of righteousness is perfection).

Who is the ones watering down the law? Those who come to the throne of grace ACKNOWLEDGING their sin, or those going around praising God they are not like the sinful OSAS believer?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yep there is correlation between faith and work.

Abraham have faith in God

Abraham went to promise land is a work as a result of his faith

Noah have faith in God

Noah make an ark is a work as direct result of his faith in God.

Salvation is by faith alone not by work, but faith produce loving work

The misunderstanding is a work as a fruit not as a requirement of salvation
So we can say that works are an offshoot of faith or a characteristic of those who have faith. So it is not a requirement to have faith, but the end result.

And since we are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH.

We can say Faith is the highway or waterway through which salvation is the end result, and works is the end result?

Instead of what many want us to believe

Is that faith plus works is the highway or waterway through which salvation is the end result (the straight and narrow way) and god forbid if faith or works fall below a certain standard, and you fall off tghe highway or waterway to oblivian?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
All the Epistles also keep listing things we should and shouldn't do. Amongst all the scritpures saying we full of spirit etc etc. still lots of scriptures listing what to do or not
What it does not say are those things are WHY or HOW we are saved, They are things a SAVED person SHOULD do to have a full life.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yep, some people misunderstood verse 24 about whatever you ask and faith

Some people think faith mean believe that God will do what ever we want.

My pastor tell the story about one young church member.

He pray for $250000 car. He put the picture of the car in his room to show his faith.

He believe God will send the car to him, but for years the car never come

He think faith only mean believe.

I agree faith also mean love, faith in God also mean love to God, that mean change our attitude and not worldly anymore
Whatever you ask in MY WILL

The scripture says that when we KNOW Gods will. We can be ASSURED (have faith) That whatever we ask, he will give.

If we do not know Gods will. We may ask for things NOT in his will. And never get an answer (or the answer was no)
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Aaahhh! Dear Lord. Why can't people understand that OUR works have NOTHING to do with the work your Son did in Saving us from the penalty of our sin? And that to believe they do is actually a HUGE insult to Jesus and the Spirit of Grace?

James is telling those that call themselves brethren to examine THEMSELVES whether they actually HAVE been born again.

Some had a dead confession of faith. We all know these people in our lives. They SAY they are Christian, they claim the Name of Christ, but their very actions or non actions tell the real truth.

James is NOT saying doing works is part of how we are saved. He is saying they ACCOMPANY Salvation.
I agree. Yet I also hold that...

A changed heart is part of salvation, it is something GOD DOES when HE saves us. It is regeneration.

...and a changed heart leads to a changed life.

This is not adding works to salvation as some claim, Because the changed heart IS NOT OUR WORK. It is GOD's WORK.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
I agree. Yet I also hold that...

A changed heart is part of salvation, it is something GOD DOES when HE saves us. It is regeneration.

...and a changed heart leads to a changed life.

This is not adding works to salvation as some claim, Because the changed heart IS NOT OUR WORK. It is GOD's WORK.
Yes, in John 3:3, Jesus said unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. In Titus 3:5, we read - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. That certainly is God's work. (y)
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Yes, in John 3:3, Jesus said unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. In Titus 3:5, we read - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. That certainly is God's work. (y)
Do regeneration and justification happen similtaneously?