Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

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#441
Feb 15, 2019
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#441
Open hearts and a spirit of worship

I have always found this is the approach we are called to have in Christ and how the
Holy Spirit shows himself amongst His people.

Just because contributors claim to know the Lord, and push others around, declaring who
is right and who is wrong, probably declares their lack of authority and their attempt at
bullying.

Paul is so blessed and he humbles me.

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all,
25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"
1 cor 14

Praise God if this is our church, I long for that day, send it soon dear Lord Jesus, Amen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#442
#442
Wansvic said:
The scripture you mention in Titus makes a distinction between the washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Ghost and is referring to water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism. This again lines up with what Peter instructed: get water baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Holy Ghost baptism) Each is needed or God would not have included both.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
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Wow man, You have done something I never thought I would see

You have taken what is an act of the HS and attributed it to man. I pray you understand what Jesus warned the pharisees who tried to attribute his work to satan.

Titus 3 says we are saved by Gods mercy by the washing and renewal of the hs. Both are acts of the HS. One is washing, the other is new birth.

This is also proven in Col 2. WHere paul talks about the circumcision done by the hand of God (spiritual cleansing or washing) which is accomplished also through baptism, in the working of God who rose Christ from the dead (not your pastor)

I can not judge you, but you are on very shaky ground here my friend.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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eternally-gratefull said:
You can post the same verse as written in english 1000 times, It will not make it say what you think it says (only in the english text)

Once again, Repent is 2nd person plural

Be baptized is third person singular’

They are not related.

IF peter was saying what you say, He would have used second person plural in BOTH cases (repent and be baptised) that fact he did not. PROVES that he is not telling everyone to be baptised in water to recieve the gift of the spirit

This is proven also by the fact that the passage says AND THOSE WHO BELIEVED (by repenting) WERE BAPTIZED.

They were saved BEFORE they were baptized. Because they had already BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF JESUS, NOT after!
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I did not say one has to be baptized in water in order to receive the Holy Ghost. I said both were necessary.

Scripture shows some received the Holy Ghost first and then got water baptized and vice versa.

Also, if you notice the instruction was to take on the name of Jesus in our water baptism.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#444
#444
Wansvic said:
I did not say one has to be baptized in water in order to receive the Holy Ghost. I said both were necessary.

Scripture shows some received the Holy Ghost first and then got water baptized and vice versa.

Also, if you notice the instruction was to take on the name of Jesus in our water baptism.
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So you did not say water baptism was necessary

But both are necessary.

So in other words, water baptism is necessary.

(Do you listen to yourself?)

Again.

Peter did not tell the people to be baptised so they could recieve the gift of salvation. He told those who had already received the gift of the spirit to be baptized BECAUSE they received remission of sin.

The origional text does not support your view. No matter how you try to slice it.
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#445
Feb 15, 2019
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#445
Wansvic said:
I did not say one has to be baptized in water in order to receive the Holy Ghost. I said both were necessary.

Scripture shows some received the Holy Ghost first and then got water baptized and vice versa.

Also, if you notice the instruction was to take on the name of Jesus in our water baptism.
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I find it odd that anyone would be arguing about water baptism.
It is something very special in the Lord and a great privilege.

It is also normally a great celebration of someone coming to faith and
a real commitment to follow. But for those who hate the following idea
they obviously want to disregard anything that might encourage such a thing.

God bless you

It is no surprise that baptists are known for their full immersion baptism :)
And probably why ex-baptists might be very worked up about this issue
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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eternally-gratefull said:
Wow man, You have done something I never thought I would see

You have taken what is an act of the HS and attributed it to man. I pray you understand what Jesus warned the pharisees who tried to attribute his work to satan.

Titus 3 says we are saved by Gods mercy by the washing and renewal of the hs. Both are acts of the HS. One is washing, the other is new birth.

This is also proven in Col 2. WHere paul talks about the circumcision done by the hand of God (spiritual cleansing or washing) which is accomplished also through baptism, in the working of God who rose Christ from the dead (not your pastor)

I can not judge you, but you are on very shaky ground here my friend.
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God performs the spiritual aspect of the rebirth experience not man. Man is obedient to what God has commanded and steps out in faith and does it.

God gives everyone freewill to repent, and pursue getting water baptized in Jesus name. If God does not automatically infill the person with His Spirit then the individual should ask for the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#447
#447
Wansvic said:
God performs the spiritual aspect of the rebirth experience not man. Man is obedient to what God has commanded and steps out in faith and does it.

God gives everyone freewill to repent, and pursue getting water baptized in Jesus name. If God does not automatically infill the person with His Spirit then the individual should ask for the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
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Yes
And the first thing Gd has to do before he can make you born again is wash you and make you clean.

GOD! NOT MAN!

Its a process COMPLETELY performed by God
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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eternally-gratefull said:
So you did not say water baptism was necessary

But both are necessary.

So in other words, water baptism is necessary.

(Do you listen to yourself?)

Again.

Peter did not tell the people to be baptised so they could recieve the gift of salvation. He told those who had already received the gift of the spirit to be baptized BECAUSE they received remission of sin.

The origional text does not support your view. No matter how you try to slice it.
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I was making a distinction. Yes, water and Holy Ghost baptisms are necessary. However, one does not have to get water baptized first in order to then receive Holy Ghost. The order in which one receives them is of no significance.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#449
#449
Wansvic said:
I was making a distinction. Yes, water and Holy Ghost baptisms are necessary. However, one does not have to get water baptized first in order to then receive Holy Ghost. The order in which one receives them is of no significance.
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Um, Paul said one baptism, not two. (One lord, one faith, one baptism)

You can’t have it both ways.

Water baptism is a response to being saved, not an act one must do to be saved. Holy Spirit baptism is the act of God the HS baptizing us into Christ, His death, His burial and His body. It is the spiritual cleansing where our sins are washed away.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#450
One cannot go wrong stepping out in faith and do whatever God instructs in His Word.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#451
#451
Wansvic said:
One cannot go wrong stepping out in faith and do whatever God instructs in His Word.
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Nope your right. In fact we should be obedient to God in all areas.

Just do not make that ACT a deed which you think is done as part of you saving yourself from the eternal penalty of sin.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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eternally-gratefull said:
Um, Paul said one baptism, not two. (One lord, one faith, one baptism)

You can’t have it both ways.

Water baptism is a response to being saved, not an act one must do to be saved. Holy Spirit baptism is the act of God the HS baptizing us into Christ, His death, His burial and His body. It is the spiritual cleansing where our sins are washed away.
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Did John refer to it as water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin? Yes. In Mark 1:4.

You forgot verse 4:
Eph 4:4-5
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#453
#453
Wansvic said:
Did John refer to it as water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin? Yes. In Mark 1:4.

You forgot verse 4:
Eph 4:4-5
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
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Yep

And that ONE baptism is holy spirit baptism (not water)


The one John prophesied about (you will be baptised by the HS)
The one Jesus promised (You will indeed be baptised wiht the baptism I am baptised with, and you will be baptized by the Holy Spirit.
The one Paul spent alot of time talking about (spirit baptism into christ his death and burial rom 6, Baptized into christ 1 cor 12) baptized into his body Gal 3. baptised as a spiritual cleaning col 2)

But if you think water baptism will cleans you, well have fun..
 
G

Godsgirl83

Guest
#454
#454
KelbyofGod said:
Hi All,

If you've got 'speaking in tongues' or spiritual gifts, or if you ever want them, or the Holy Ghost, or even just want to know what they actually are... this thread was created for you.

For those who intend to discount, discredit, etc... Well, you've got plenty of other threads to populate. This one is for people who want to learn, or perhaps to share what God is doing in their life. (So please ask yourself if that negative comment you know you want to make is really for their benefit, or just your own...especially if they haven't even arrived.)

As for me, I'm only offering to share what I know to benefit others (if they're so inclined) and to learn more myself. In fact, I'm not an expert. God is the expert. God is our hope. God is the one who can explain things to us in ways we can understand. God is the one who gives spiritual gifts. And God is the one who can fix any mistakes we may make. So, let's invite him into the topic. :)

People, I'll post some things I know or currently believe. Feel free to ask any honest question you like.

God, I'm kind of turning it over to you now. Do with it as you like. Thank you in Jesus' name. :)

-Kelby
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Well.............I happened to stumble across this video yesterday. I don't know why it came up as a recommendation while what I was looking for was nothing even remotely close to this subject. BUT GOD HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR AND TIMING! That was yesterday morning, and I was excited to share it in PM's with other members here, not knowing where on the site to post................ THEN LAST NIGHT I wasn't looking for this thread, I just happened to stumble upon it and BOY did I get EXCITED!





I believe God watches what the science community does to try and disprove spiritual matters, and laughs! They just keep PROVING HIM!
laughter.jpg
 
Kavik

Kavik

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Mar 25, 2017
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#455
Godsgirl83 said:
I happened to stumble across this video yesterday.
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This is the U-Penn study that was done several years ago. The results of the study are rather inconclusive and can be argued either way.

I would argue that the fact the language producing centers of the brain aren't overly active in the production of "tongues" is because modern 'tongues' are simply not language. They are non cognitive non-language utterance; the brain's language producing centers do not need to be overly active in its production and the study proves just that.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
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#456
Kavik said:
This is the U-Penn study that was done several years ago. The results of the study are rather inconclusive and can be argued either way.

I would argue that the fact the language producing centers of the brain aren't overly active in the production of "tongues" is because modern 'tongues' are simply not language. They are non cognitive non-language utterance; the brain's language producing centers do not need to be overly active in its production and the study proves just that.
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That's interesting, knowing the human brain has the capability of learning over 100 different languages. But the one language we cannot ever learn, is the language of Angels. But yet, through the Holy Spirit, we can Speak it, we just will never comprehend it.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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Not sure how water baptism got into this thread, but Jesus was baptized in water, then Holy Spirit came upon Him. He said to John that the water baptism was to fulfill all righteousness. Is He not our pattern?

I wanted to be baptized after conversion. It was never an issue of should I. Was my desire. I knew nothing about the gifts of Holy Spirit when baptized by Him, just that we were taught we needed His power for witnessing. So in asking, a "wind stepped into me". Never expected anything but that happened.

Many were baptized by John for repentance and then received the baptism of Holy Spirit later. Is this the right pattern? I don't think there is a set pattern, for it has happened simultaneously for some, different times for others. Tongues immediately, tongues later, tongues not at all but prophecy or one of the other voice gifts come....is the power of Holy Spirit and His way He moves, not by rules.

But it is both baptisms and seen in scripture.

Water is our death to self and rising in Christ. Repenting of self and turning to another Lord to rule.

Spirit is the power to live, move and have our being in Him and for ministry. It's positional, and experiential. Is how I see this in the Word.

We may not know in the beginning of any truths about what has occurred, but Holy Spirit leads and teaches.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#458
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#458
Kavik said:
This is the U-Penn study that was done several years ago. The results of the study are rather inconclusive and can be argued either way.

I would argue that the fact the language producing centers of the brain aren't overly active in the production of "tongues" is because modern 'tongues' are simply not language. They are non cognitive non-language utterance; the brain's language producing centers do not need to be overly active in its production and the study proves just that.
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Are you sure that particular video was of the Penn State study? I can't view it for some reason, but I don't remember reading that their study was inconclusive. They saw that the speech center of the brain rested while those were speaking in tongues.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#460
#460
stonesoffire said:
Not sure how water baptism got into this thread, but Jesus was baptized in water, then Holy Spirit came upon Him. He said to John that the water baptism was to fulfill all righteousness. Is He not our pattern?

I wanted to be baptized after conversion. It was never an issue of should I. Was my desire. I knew nothing about the gifts of Holy Spirit when baptized by Him, just that we were taught we needed His power for witnessing. So in asking, a "wind stepped into me". Never expected anything but that happened.

Many were baptized by John for repentance and then received the baptism of Holy Spirit later. Is this the right pattern? I don't think there is a set pattern, for it has happened simultaneously for some, different times for others. Tongues immediately, tongues later, tongues not at all but prophecy or one of the other voice gifts come....is the power of Holy Spirit and His way He moves, not by rules.

But it is both baptisms and seen in scripture.

Water is our death to self and rising in Christ. Repenting of self and turning to another Lord to rule.

Spirit is the power to live, move and have our being in Him and for ministry. It's positional, and experiential. Is how I see this in the Word.

We may not know in the beginning of any truths about what has occurred, but Holy Spirit leads and teaches.
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Not sure either

But Jesus was baptised to let the people know who he was (reveal himself) and God testified that jesus was his son.

I was baptized in water after I was saved as a testimony to my church and my family Who I was ( a son of God)

But when we try to replace the spiritual act of baptism wiht the physical act. And claim it is required for salvation. We adding to the work of God. And preaching works.
 
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