Question for OSAS people. (from a believer who believes that God does indeed preserve us)

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#81
But I believe that the deeds of the flesh must be mortified BECAUSE we are no longer slaves to sin. (Romans 8:13)
It is in our redeemed soul, but the flesh has not been redeemed, still under condemnation, and we will struggle as long as we are in these bodies in a sin-filled world.

But none of use have any hope if our salvation is depending upon us staying free from sin in this world. None. We all sin, all the time.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#82
The funny thing is that people who are wrong never say "I could be wrong". They state their falsities as if they are Biblical Fact. Its funny how rampant this is. Not just in the Christian community but everywhere you can hear people say things that are obviously untrue as if they were fact.
I could be wrong. I'm sure I'm wrong about many things. Thanks for helping me grow and learn, Grandpa.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#83
OSAS, means once you are saved you are always saved. I do not believe that statement comes with caveats. The OSAS statement is definitive, not nuanced. In essence your OP is creating the strawman.
We can argue all day about whether someone is saved or not, but that is a totally different subject.
A strawman indeed!!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#84
But none of use have any hope if our salvation is depending upon us staying free from sin in this world. None. We all sin, all the time.
If only all of us would go to our knees, confess, and repent, all of the time, then we would not have to discuss this OSAS thing.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

A little humility goes a long way in the Kingdom.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
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#85
we would not have to discuss this OSAS thing
This wouldn't be a discussion if we believed that Christ died for all of our sins on the cross, past, present and future. But, I guess there are some that do not believe Christ died for all future sins, but up to us to keep from sinning.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#86
If only all of us would go to our knees, confess, and repent, all of the time, then we would not have to discuss this OSAS thing.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

A little humility goes a long way in the Kingdom.
That is the key thing. Keep the communication open with the Lord and He will direct our steps. Humility is needed for us to follow Him.

Psalms 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." :cool:
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#87
It is in our redeemed soul, but the flesh has not been redeemed, still under condemnation, and we will struggle as long as we are in these bodies in a sin-filled world.

But none of use have any hope if our salvation is depending upon us staying free from sin in this world. None. We all sin, all the time.
I agree with your post, but the antithesis of what you are saying is not the point I was trying to make. Here is a basic outline of my position

A. Our old man was crucified with Christ

B. The intent and result of that is that the body of son has been destroyed. (Romans 6:6). The word destroyed means deprived of force and power

C. Consequently, we are no longer slaves to sin

D. But since we are in various stages of reckoning and appropriating these things, we struggle with sin

E. We are called to put to death the deeds of the body, our sins

F. This is a lifelong process
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#88
You would disagree that the flesh is slave to sin?

The Lust of the flesh, the Lust of the eyes and the pride of Life do not run our lives any longer because we are not slaves to them.

But to say they don't still have an effect on us would be untruthful.


So it would be better to say that there is a War going on inside of us between our New Nature and flesh. We want our New Nature to be the one we follow but we have followed the flesh for so long that we sometimes do things in the flesh without thinking about them. And because we do those things in the flesh without thinking about them we are a slave to it from time to time. Maybe we don't want to be. But that doesn't change the fact.


As a Christian, when we look at a person who is trapped in their sin with no knowledge of a Saviour, we don't look at them with contempt. We look at them as people with no knowledge of the Truth. We used to be EXACTLY like them. The only difference is that the Lord picked us up and washed us off.
First of all, I'm not looking at anyone with contempt. I am discussing Bible, and when I see something that looks like a dangerous doctrine, I point it out.

Now as to "is the flesh a slave to sin? The question misses the point. Please read the following verses.

Galatians 5:24-And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (in crucifying the flesh, we have renounced the flesh and reckoned ourselves dead to sin and alive to Christ, no longer sold under sin, but redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.)

Romans 8:13- For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live
(We are called to put to death the deeds of the body, (sins) THROUGH THE SPIRIT.

Now how do we do this?

Galatians 5:16- his I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (we mortify the flesh by walking in the Spirit. )

Galatians 5:17- For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

We see the conflict between our old nature and our new nature. It is also found in Romans 7. What is the secret to overcoming the old nature and living in the New?

Romans 8:4- That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

How are we able to deny the flesh and walk after the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

SIn was condemned in the flesh at the cross.

Summary- Romans 6:6- Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The old man was crucified with Christ so that the body of sin might be destroyed

IMPORTANT NOTE- Destroyed does not mean anhilated. It means deprived of force or power. The flesh, sin, old man, etc have no power over us except that which we willingly give it, and the reason why we willingly give it power is either we do not understand the power of God, or we love sin too much, or we have not reckoned ourselves dead to sin

All of these problems can be dealt with in time. Sanctification is a process.

Philippians 3:12- Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Yet the Grace of God teaches us to DENY ungodliness and live soberly and righteously in this present age.

Titus 2:11-12- For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

He that is dead is freed from sin. Romans 6:7
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#89
A strawman indeed!!
The purpose of this thread is not to determine if any individual or group is saved, nor is the purpose to try to argue for or against losing salvation. The purpose of this thread is to hear OSAS people's opinion regarding the statement in the OP. That is all.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#90
This wouldn't be a discussion if we believed that Christ died for all of our sins on the cross, past, present and future. But, I guess there are some that do not believe Christ died for all future sins, but up to us to keep from sinning.
a. I believe Christ died for all my sins.

b. I believe that all my sins, past, present, and future have been paid for by Christ's blood.

C. I do not believe it is up to us to keep from sinning. that would only put us in bondage.

We agree up to this point, it is clear. Let's see if we agree on three other points.

D. We are not slaves to sin any longer, because the Old man was crucified so that the body of sin might be destroyed., and because OUR PERSONS were redeemed by the blood of Christ

E. While We will not be sinlessly perfect in our walk in this life, yet we are called to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

f. This is not to obtain salvation, but to gloriy God, to whom our spirits and souls belong, and so that our joy might be full, and so that God may be glorified in the world.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#91
That is the straw man created by those who believe they can lose their eternal salvation by ceasing to believe on Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes, I used to believe that Eternal Security was licentious, but then when I studied it, I found out some very holy men held to this doctrine, and that the doctrine when preached correctly is very strong on sanctification and living a life to glorify God. But there are a few who pervert the doctrine, just like there are folks who may pervert any doctrine.

Some of my favorite writers who held to a form of "eternal security" are Charles Spurgeon, John Owen, and RC Sproul. They did not teach the statement in the OP, but quite the contrary.


They and others taught the doctrine of "The Perserverance of the Saints", which does NOT promote the statement in the OP
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
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#92
a. I believe Christ died for all my sins.

b. I believe that all my sins, past, present, and future have been paid for by Christ's blood.

C. I do not believe it is up to us to keep from sinning. that would only put us in bondage.

We agree up to this point, it is clear. Let's see if we agree on three other points.

D. We are not slaves to sin any longer, because the Old man was crucified so that the body of sin might be destroyed., and because OUR PERSONS were redeemed by the blood of Christ

E. While We will not be sinlessly perfect in our walk in this life, yet we are called to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

f. This is not to obtain salvation, but to gloriy God, to whom our spirits and souls belong, and so that our joy might be full, and so that God may be glorified in the world.
Agree, but there are some, if not many, that fall back into the world and never grow or mature in their faith, nevertheless they are saved.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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#94
The purpose of this thread is not to determine if any individual or group is saved, nor is the purpose to try to argue for or against losing salvation. The purpose of this thread is to hear OSAS people's opinion regarding the statement in the OP. That is all.
Your OP was a question that didn't truly make sense. As if I asked, "Does forgiveness of sin mean I can reject Jesus Christ?" Your question was leading. OSAS means, Once Saved, Always Saved. Its very simple, almost as simple as the Gospel, but you have managed to muddy the water. The only qualifier in OSAS is your salvation.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#95
Agree, but there are some, if not many, that fall back into the world and never grow or mature in their faith, nevertheless they are saved.
...and then there are yet others who GO back. They are NOT saved.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#96
Your OP was a question that didn't truly make sense. As if I asked, "Does forgiveness of sin mean I can reject Jesus Christ?" Your question was leading. OSAS means, Once Saved, Always Saved. Its very simple, almost as simple as the Gospel, but you have managed to muddy the water. The only qualifier in OSAS is your salvation.
No, my question was based on a clear statement made by someone on this website.

If a person will read the posts written by me in this thread, there is no "muddied water".

1 John 2:19- They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#97
Your OP was a question that didn't truly make sense. As if I asked, "Does forgiveness of sin mean I can reject Jesus Christ?" Your question was leading. OSAS means, Once Saved, Always Saved. Its very simple, almost as simple as the Gospel, but you have managed to muddy the water. The only qualifier in OSAS is your salvation.
Hebrews 3:6- But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

Apodosis- WE are Christ's house

protasis- if we hold firmly to our confidence and hope

NOTE: I hold this to be a DESCRIPTIVE statement.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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#98
No, my question was based on a clear statement made by someone on this website.

If a person will read the posts written by me in this thread, there is no "muddied water".

1 John 2:19- They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Oh, that clears it all up for me then.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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#99
Hebrews 3:6- But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

Apodosis- WE are Christ's house

protasis- if we hold firmly to our confidence and hope

NOTE: I hold this to be a DESCRIPTIVE statement.
That is a Bible verse that gives a qualifier. So the verse that you have quoted is OSAS....if.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
Does OSAS mean that we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved? Because I ran into some who support and or defend this view
If they stop believing they never really believed, and about sin there is a tell take there in the operative all we want.
A believer may sin but it's not what he really wants. A believer desires God and holiness. Now a believer can be derailed and side tracked and find himself far from where he wants to be and deep in sin, but the he will repent and get back on track.
Now there is a sin into death which is spoken of in 1 John but I'm not sure this is loss of salvation of an Ananias and Sapphira type of thing where they actually died on the spot.