Armed SWAT Team in Arizona Breaks Down Door of Family with Unvaccinated Child.

Wow! 1000 children have died from measles in Madagascar since Oct. And how many from Vaccines? Obviously these childhood diseases are deadly, yet the antivaxxers keep up their unmedical nonsense in this forum.

As for the OP, not seeing a link to the article. The source is everything. Is this from some antivax journal? A tabloid? Or maybe an obscure, unvetted, non peer reviewed medical journal?

Hard to believe anything posted about how bad vaccines, seeing as I almost died from Red Measles before the vaccines, and my kids all were vaccinated, although only once, and the oldest brought home a mild case from school, which was brought from England by some unvaccinated child on vacation!

@PennEd Those who cannot have vaccines because of pre-existing conditions, like allergies to the growth medium, are especially at risk. But, an epidemic is not good for anyone, I hope you would agree? Plus, infants who are not old enough to be vaccinated are very much at risk, like my new grandson.

Yet these stupid antivaxxers keep spreading their lies! How many more children will die of these diseases which are easily stopped with a vaccine, before these people realize how wrong they are!!?

Let me be clear. I think vaccines have saved/improved the lives of billions over the past 70 yrs. I think it's kinda silly to argue against that. My kids got vaccinated. What I have a problem with is Governmental FORCED vaccinations.

We can't live in, or put our kids, or ourselves in a protective bubble. If your kid isn't vaccinated, because YOU choose not to for whatever reason, and my kid IS vaccinated, then there is no danger to my kid. And yes, we can ALWAYS come up with exceptions like allergies, but that shouldn't infringe on others rights. I will take freedom over security every time. Even if it's "for my own good" because I may be ignorant about something.

If you follow this to it's logical conclusion what is stop the Government from forcing all sorts of things.

I am not like you A. I do not get dogmatic about this. I do not dig my heels in. It is about the harming/helping ratio. It is aboiut having a TRUTHFUL reasonable discussion. It is about the truth, which the money mongers are keeling from us best they can. I know there is a better way then vaccines, but also recognize the mentality of this wicked world and realize we have to give that consideration. You are just entenched in the big pharma, western medical system model, so you need to validate the mode for yojr own head.
I just spoke to a MD this morning. You would be shocked at what he told me.

Since modern medicine has saved my life, maybe 20 times, including pneumonia when I was a baby, yes, I'm grateful. Then asthma, and now crippling RA. I couldn't get out of bed or feed myself without modern drugs for me RA.

Who knows, maybe having all those dreadful childhood diseases weakened my immune system. I wish I could have had even the chicken pox vaccine, as I had shingle 4 times. Horrible, painful disease.

You are obsessed and you offer nothing but half baked lies as an alternative.

The first time we chatted, you launched into me about how eating better would cure (or at least improve!) my RA.

Had you stopped to ask first, you would have found out I have been a vegetarian since I was 19, eating a plant base diet, grow my own organic veggies, and don't eat refined or fatty foods. Yet, I got RA from non diet reasons, like genetics, and being triggered.

You were rude and inappropriate. You are giving your uniformed opinions now about this, too! You just keep obsessing about being "natural!" People got sick and died young from diseases for millennia! No junk food existed. To say nothing of the fact I have tried every anti-inflammatory diet, in my years with this disease, and not one of them made a difference.

If you post something that makes common or scientific sense, I will support you! Until then, this OP was just a hook for you to launch another thread about your vaccine obsession.

Circumcision? this is just one article that I found but I have done a fair bit of "internet research" on it.https://qz.com/885018/why-is-circumcision-so-popular-in-the-us/

For me the biggest question is how much power should the State have? If a parent shold to choose home schooling, pull a kid out of school and teach them GAY IS NOT OK. And teach them creation and not evolution how soon will the State take the kids away?

If privatization of schools passes and private schools start taking the states money. The state will be able to dictate curriculum. And schools will either comply, only serve rich kids, or go belly up!

Armed SWAT Team in Arizona Breaks Down Door of Family with Unvaccinated Child
by Barbara Loe Fisher
Published April 11, 2019 | Ethics, Bioethics


Just after 1 a.m. the morning of Feb. 25, 2019, a SWAT team with guns drawn broke down the door of a suburban home in Chandler, Arizona where parents were caring for an unvaccinated child with a fever. The armed policemen had a “temporary custody notice” from a judge to remove a two year old from the home after his mother refused to obey the order of a doctor to take the child to the hospital for testing earlier in the day. The child and his siblings, ages four and six, were taken into state custody and placed in foster homes and the mother and father both have been charged with child abuse.1 2 3 4 5
The story began that day when the mother, who is pregnant, took her toddler to Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine in Tempe, AZ after his fever rose to over 100 F. When the doctor asked the mother if the child was vaccinated and she said, “No,” the doctor told the mother to take her son to the emergency room at the Banner Cardon Children’s Medical Center in Mesa, AZ to be tested for meningitis.
According to the The Arizona Republic, the mother said that after the doctor’s office visit, the child was laughing and playing with his siblings and, when she took his temperature again, it was near normal. She then called the doctor to say she would not be taking her son to the emergency room and also expressed worry that, because her son was not vaccinated, she would get in trouble with the Department of Child Services (DCS). When the mother did not follow the doctor’s orders to take the child to the hospital emergency room, the doctor contacted DCS.
DCS called the Chandler Police and “requested officers to check on the welfare of a two year old infant.” At 10:30 p.m., two police officers knocked on the family’s door but nobody answered. After a DCS caseworker arrived, a call was made to the doctor, who still insisted the child should be taken to the hospital. However, in a phone conversation between one of the police officers and the child’s father, who was inside the home, the father said that his son’s “fever broke and he was fine.” There are indications that the father was concerned about the high cost of an emergency room visit in light of the fact the child’s fever was down and he was acting normally.6
Just after midnight, the DCS caseworker obtained a “temporary custody notice” signed by a judge and police officers called the criminal investigations bureau. About 1:30 a.m., a SWAT team with guns drawn and yelling “Chandler Police Department” kicked down the family’s door. A video recorded by a security surveillance camera shows the father emerging walking backwards with his hands up and being immediately handcuffed, as the mother follows with her son in her arms.
The officers reported they found two other young children in their beds, one of whom was sick and had vomited, and that the home was “messy.” All three children were taken to the children’s medical center and then placed in foster care in separate homes.

I agree it's a hard one. I believe the danger is to those that haven't been vaccinated. It can cause death. The more I think the more I don't know which side I come down on. I mean there are people who believe it's wrong to even go to a doctor, so then where does that put us when their children are sick? Not sure where the law comes down on this one.

There are balances to be found. We can use reason to find that balance. As a general rule extreme ends are both wrong. Generally speaking that is.

And people would rightly be outraged if children were kidnapped from their parents for not being circumcised, because that's what the government or medical staff thought best. Yet when children are kidnapped because their parents resist a dangerous medical intervention like vaccination, most pro-vaxxers don't say anything.

Wow! 1000 children have died from measles in Madagascar since Oct. And how many from Vaccines? Obviously these childhood diseases are deadly, yet the antivaxxers keep up their unmedical nonsense in this forum.

As for the OP, not seeing a link to the article. The source is everything. Is this from some antivax journal? A tabloid? Or maybe an obscure, unvetted, non peer reviewed medical journal?

Hard to believe anything posted about how bad vaccines, seeing as I almost died from Red Measles before the vaccines, and my kids all were vaccinated, although only once, and the oldest brought home a mild case from school, which was brought from England by some unvaccinated child on vacation!

@PennEd Those who cannot have vaccines because of pre-existing conditions, like allergies to the growth medium, are especially at risk. But, an epidemic is not good for anyone, I hope you would agree? Plus, infants who are not old enough to be vaccinated are very much at risk, like my new grandson.

Yet these stupid antivaxxers keep spreading their lies! How many more children will die of these diseases which are easily stopped with a vaccine, before these people realize how wrong they are!!?

While this is generally true, you are putting others at risk. What about TB? People had to be quarantined. Other serious diseases, do we just say "well people have their rights"? You don't have a right to put others in danger. So then where do we stand? Honestly I don't know the answer. But if people are refusing to vax their children and those children are at risk of serious sickness and even death do we just let the child suffer? Where is the in between?

Misinformation is dangerous. Vaccination is not dangerous. I assume you never go to the doc and you never take medication he prescribes.

I avoid them as much as possible. If I break a bone or need more stitches than I can give myself I make it a general rule to avoid the medical professionals.

I avoid them as much as possible. If I break a bone or need more stitches than I can give myself I make it a general rule to avoid the medical professionals.

You are still talking about extremes.
Someone looking for a balance may choose to do some research and figure out what vaccines they should and should not take. It really is a matter of using the brain given to us by God. Maybe some people get the initial vaccines but don't get the boosters.
Here in Texas they all but force you to take an hpv vaccine, why shouldn't that be a choice. Just for an example.

So you don't believe autism, sudden infant death, asthma, cancer etc. are dangers worth considering prior to vaccinating?

No, I believe that is misinformation. What do we do in a situation like TB, diseases where people need to be quarantined? Just say they read something on the internet and now they're a medical professional? Just let them go their way?

This is the composition/division logical fallacy.

No, I believe that is misinformation.

What do we do in a situation like TB, diseases where people need to be quarantined? Just say they read something on the internet and now they're a medical professional? Just let them go their way?

Well I was talking to another poster. And I don't go to the doctor either unless totally necessary.