Gay wedding

Greetings RickyZ,

I don’t envy your situation.

I thought about it and many scriptures came to mind;

(Mat 10:37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
I think of how Jesus told us what it was to “love” Him in;

(Joh 14:21) Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."

When you look into the commandments on this matter;

(Lev 20:13) If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

There is no latitude or path to restitution at this time on this one.

So, perhaps your question is; How does Jesus view this “abomination” today? If your answer is “He remains unchanged” despite our Babylonian/Satanic overlord acceptance of it, then you must ask what would He expect of someone who loves Him above all else?

Truly, the more we fall in love with Jesus is synonymous with falling in love with His laws, the Torah, the more we begin to despise all sin as they are confrontations to His order and rule. And to the point that the sinner will not repent when notified of these is the point that we are of two different worlds. Grevious as it might be to put family in this grouping it presents us with an important question of who we love more.

I pray your heart is not overcharged with this…rest in Jesus and His order. Recognize the importance of these impasses and why they are important to Jesus.

It's a pickle where we want to love but we don't want to send the wrong message

How about some integrity when citing the word of God to make a point …
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast
a stone at her.
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:
Here is the gospel in a nutshell. > repent - change your ways - sin no more.

spoken to again in
13 And he that was healed knew not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more,
lest a worse thing come unto thee.
John 5:

Our love for worldly people who are lost is compassion for their state as the walking dead; for we ought to remember how but for
the grace of God we too were like them.
Our love is to care that they hear the gospel and have opportunity to repent and embrace Christ Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
We know about the issues of life and death and grieve for those we know personally who live in the world denying Jesus and
the gospel.

There is confusion here about the natural status of this nephew and respect for him as a natural person in conflict with the
spiritual knowledge that every sinner must repent and come to God through Jesus Christ.
We are supposed to have testimonies to uphold proving our separation from the world and walking in the righteousness of God.
Sleeping with the enemy is not the way to bring people to the gospel.

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation has appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 2:

1 Tim 5:20-22

20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

He is still your nephew, you couldn’t turn your back on him even if it’s not Christian he’s family.
You can pray for him if you want , ask God what to pray for and how to pray
Gods not going to condemn you for your prayers, or your nephew’ s choices
As Christian we know it’s not biblical

I do; and again, we are called upon not to participate in sin, but that's different than being in the presence of sinners. Honestly there's nothing going on at the gay reception that isn't going on openly in the streets these days. Are we to stay locked up in our homes now because to walk the street is to be guilty of condoning the sin that runs it? The line I see drawn is that we are to not throw stones at sinners, and only shun the saved who refuse correction.

He did not condone her either. As a matter of fact He told her to repent.
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

By going you are participating in it, celebrating the occasion, sharing in the sin unless you are going to show your hurt and the hurt it causes GOD.

Greetings Magenta,

I appreciate your desire for mercy, but it is important to recognize that while Christ exemplifies perfect love and is the embodiment of mercy, to use this story as an illustration of Christ’s love and mercy would be a failure to take into account the context in which the story takes place.

Remember that Jesus Christ gave Moses the law. He, as YHWH commanded that adulterers should be put to death. Death by stoning as punishment for adultery was part of the Hebrew canon of laws at the time of Christ. It would be curious if He who gave the law was now advocating that the law not be enforced, don't you think?

This passage is likely a lesson from Jesus that everything must be done in accordance with the Laws He gave to Moses.

First, the law required that the man and the woman be stoned. Where was the man? Jesus saw this and knew there was something amiss.

Second, the witnesses must be pure, non malicious witnesses.

Note the provisions in the law regarding this:

(Deu 19:15) One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(Deu 19:16) If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse a man of a crime,

(Deu 19:17) the two men involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time.

(Deu 19:18) The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against his brother,

(Deu 19:19) then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you.

(Deu 19:20) The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you.

(Deu 19:21) Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.


and;

(Exo 23:1) "Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness.

(Exo 23:2) "Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,

There is so much more here than meets the eye, but when it comes right down to it, you were correct when you quotes that Jesus did not condemn the woman, but did he forgive her?

Perhaps Jesus was writing the passages above in the dirt, and then stood and made the statement; "ye who are without sin, cast the first stone. It is in the law that the witnesses who bring the accusation cast the first stones and that they be "non-malicious"!

The New Testament has very little to offer without an intimate knowledge of the Old Testament.

I hope this helps.

RickyZ, I hear your justifications. If you have made your mind up then it would be better if you just ceased trying to justify what you are going to do.

If your heart is open to receiving the wisdom and admonitions of God then ask why Jesus gave such strict laws and instant penalties/judgements regarding sodomites.

Regarding throwing stones, you have missed the point of that account. Jesus gave us laws regarding malicious, unrighteous witnesses and strict adherance to the protocols of the Law. Below is an exerpt of a reply I just gave on this thread:

>>>This passage is likely a lesson from Jesus that everything must be done in accordance with the Laws He gave to Moses.

First, the law required that the man and the woman be stoned. Where was the man? Jesus saw this and knew there was something amiss.

Second, the witnesses must be pure, non malicious witnesses.

Note the provisions in the law regarding this:

(Deu 19:15) One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(Deu 19:16) If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse a man of a crime,

(Deu 19:17) the two men involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time.

(Deu 19:18) The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against his brother,

(Deu 19:19) then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you.

(Deu 19:20) The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you.

(Deu 19:21) Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.


and;

(Exo 23:1) "Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness.

(Exo 23:2) "Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,

There is so much more here than meets the eye, but when it comes right down to it, you were correct when you quotes that Jesus did not condemn the woman, but did he forgive her?

Perhaps Jesus was writing the passages above in the dirt, and then stood and made the statement; "ye who are without sin, cast the first stone. It is in the law that the witnesses who bring the accusation cast the first stones and that they be "non-malicious"!

The New Testament has very little to offer without an intimate knowledge of the Old Testament.

I hope this helps. <<<<

Your comment on being locked up in our house is telling. There is a difference between walking the street to go to the market and walking the streets to join the parade.

Again, if you have made your mind up it would be better to just stop here and do what you have made our mind up to do.


Psa 26:4-5 NIV I do not sit with deceitful men, nor do I consort with hypocrites; (5) I abhor the assembly of evildoers and refuse to sit with the wicked.

Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful.
Psalm 1:1

Perhaps, but he said that he thought the metafore "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" was in the bible, possibly in Proverbs, it was that metafore I was looking for.
But the ones you listed are great examples of that metafore.

The law was not given to Gentiles. If you wish to put yourself under the law, which, by the way, was fulfilled in Christ, then you must follow every letter of the law to a "T" or you stand guilty and condemned under the law of having broken the whole of the law. Do you keep the law in its entirety? Why do you wish to put people under the law? What is important is faith expressing itself in love.

Paul said, “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." And...

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?"... For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."

I love God hence I love the law. There is no shame in knowing and keeping the law John 14:21. I keep the law because it is good and right and also what God wants. Do you feel the Ten Commandments are optional, or inconsequential to our walk?

When Jesus said;

Mat 5:18-19 KJV For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I would agree that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial laws but the rest remain part of our walk.

Do you feel you can “Love” God without knowing His laws and keeping them? Do you feel that ignorance of Gods will that results in your sinning against Him is covered by grace? If so, then you must feel that if anyone chooses to remain ignorant of His will in any matter, even thought they are written in plain English, and can be easily known, grace is sufficient!

The doctrine of grace was developed only recently. The early Christian church was absolutely void of it. In fact the “Early New Testament Church” lacked two main things: The New Testament and Churches. The early New Testament Church Studied the Laws of God and met in homes and or Synagogues!

1Ti 4:1-2 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Greetings Magenta,

So are you then doctrinally predisposed to not punish anyone for anything evil they do?

Greetings SimpleGardner,

This is already off topic, but the answer to that is that believers are not under the Mosaic Law. We are under a different covenant through faith in the shed blood of Christ. Regarding Matt.5:17, which you left out, Jesus fulfilled all that was written of Him and He fulfilled the entire law, not just the sacrificial law. And He didn't come to perpetuate the law. For as scripture states, "if salvation could be obtained by observing the law, then Christ died for nothing." Regarding "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so," no one is keeping the law, nor is anyone able to keep it, which is why Jesus kept it for us. Also, no one is teaching to break those commandments, but we teach that we are under a different covenant. The law brings death because we can't keep it. As Peter said when those Pharisaic believers claimed that the Gentiles must be circumcised and made to obey the law of Moses:

"Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Don't you understand that the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. Not just the sacrificial law, but the whole Law. For Paul said:

"For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."

When anyone trusts in their own works for salvation, then they are not trusting in Christ who met the righteous requirements of the law on their behalf. Any time you bring in any other requirement along side of Christ's payment, it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient. Scripture goes on to say:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." - NLT

As scripture states, "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

We should be following Christ, let by the Spirit. We should honor God with our bodies. But when we sin, if we confess our sins, then He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

We are not under any part of the law.

Greetings Ahwatukee,

Thank you for taking the time to give your account. There is so much here to discuss. Since it's getting late please let me focus in on your point; "But when we sin" If we are not under any Law, how can we be guilty of any sin? Is it a sin to covet?