Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
6,276
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Hey, VCO, was my post (101,954) to you a red herring. This question is for "Oneofhis" benefit and information.
see here you go. someone disagrees or questions what you say, you go off on a tirade.

this is why I am not going to interact with you , mr. " I know everything and I am never wrong".
you need to learn some humility and let things go.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
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It would be a red herring if I was trying to divert from what you said. But I affirm the exact thing that you said and have affirmed it at least 50 times. No, I merely agreed with you and the rest was for everyone in general, just like my post to VCO. post 101954. DO you think my post to VCO was a red herring too?

Notice that her post in no way addressed what I said, but argued for something that I was not arguing against at all. That is a classic example of a red herring.

Are the others ignoring you at this point?


Who has once said when we are born again we aren't given new desires.... who


You show me a quote where someone you are supposedly addressing says children of God are not made new...
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Why quote me?

This thread gives glory and praise to God for salvation...

Who said anything about not loving our Father who loved us first?

You making one of those "red herrings" you complain about so much?
A red herring would detract from what you are saying. But nothing I said contradicts what you said. You want to know about the CONTEXT of the text you are quoting is about. ABRAHAM. Abraham was justified by FAITH ALONE. Now why don't you read THE REST of the chapter and see what sort of faith Abraham had.

Romans 4:8 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Are the others ignoring you at this point?


Who has once said when we are born again we aren't given new desires.... who


You show me a quote where someone you are supposedly addressing says children of God are not made new...
Where did I imply that someone said that? Post number please. DO you want a hat for your strawman or a match to light him up. Show me a post where I accused anyone of saying children of God are not given new desires or made new. I will continue posting this repeatedly until you either admit you accused me of something I did not do or provide documentation for your accusation.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Are the others ignoring you at this point?


Who has once said when we are born again we aren't given new desires.... who


You show me a quote where someone you are supposedly addressing says children of God are not made new...
I neither know or care who is ignoring me.

Show me a post where I accused anyone of saying children of God are not given new desires or made new. I will continue posting this repeatedly until you either admit you accused me of something I did not do or provide documentation for your accusation.

ONE SPECIFIC POST, give post number

DControversal, Eternally Grateful, and GB9 are on my ignore list. SO if they give an answer to this, pass it on to me.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
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Where did I imply that someone said that? Post number please. DO you want a hat for your strawman or a match to light him up. Show me a post where I accused anyone of saying children of God are not given new desires or made new. I will continue posting this repeatedly until you either admit you accused me of something I did not do or provide documentation for your accusation.
Lol😂

....wait

are you serious?

why post something for "everyone" but quote me just rambling over and over again


oh goodness...


are you sober?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Are the others ignoring you at this point?


Who has once said when we are born again we aren't given new desires.... who


You show me a quote where someone you are supposedly addressing says children of God are not made new...
How about DC asking a rhetorical question can a person can be saved 50 years without doing any work for God's glory to prove his point about justification by faith without works. . What desires do you have where you are saved 50 years, but live entirely to yourself. That sounds like living in the flesh. .

OK so now I am saying it. To say that someone can be saved 50 years and do no service for God is the same as not having new desires. Unless you decide to suppress the desires of your new nature for 50 years, I suppose one could do that.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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How about DC asking a rhetorical question can a person can be saved 50 years without doing any work for God's glory to prove his point about justification by faith without works. . What desires do you have where you are saved 50 years, but live entirely to yourself. That sounds like living in the flesh. .

OK so now I am saying it. To say that someone can be saved 50 years and do no service for God is the same as not having new desires. Unless you decide to suppress the desires of your new nature for 50 years, I suppose one could do that.
We are justified by faith without works, yes, but when we are justified, we also receive a new nature, and if we have a new nature, we will have new desires, and thus, we will want to see God glorified (new desires) and will labor to that end. Not to be saved, but from love and gratitude. This does not describe DC's hypothetical man, a person who has been saved 50 years, but has never lifted a finger to glorify God and help neighbor. If a person has new desires, why would he suppress those desires for 50 years?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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We are justified by faith without works, yes, but when we are justified, we also receive a new nature, and if we have a new nature, we will have new desires, and thus, we will want to see God glorified (new desires) and will labor to that end. Not to be saved, but from love and gratitude. This does not describe DC's hypothetical man, a person who has been saved 50 years, but has never lifted a finger to glorify God and help neighbor. If a person has new desires, why would he suppress those desires for 50 years?
Therefore, you and DC are correct that a person is justified by faith through Grace alone, but DC uses the text to teach that a person can be saved their whole life basically without doing anything out of love or gratitude for God (saved 50 years and no works) , and claim they have faith or a new nature.

The verse is GREAT. Using the verse to produce such an argument IS NOT.

So are YOU going to defend such argumentation?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Therefore, you and DC are correct that a person is justified by faith through Grace alone, but DC uses the text to teach that a person can be saved their whole life basically without doing anything out of love or gratitude for God (saved 50 years and no works) , and claim they have faith or a new nature.

The verse is GREAT. Using the verse to produce such an argument IS NOT.
My point is not about what Justifies us, (faith does, works do not) it is about the things that faith and justification by faith produce in an heart and a life. :) Good day, sir.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Even if you do not to sin but do?
My experience would be severe gambling problem that I had for 3 decades.
Is that serving the flesh?

I'm not so sure as it was something I hated.
Despite my despairs and prayers, tears and depression.
Getting to point of committing suicide.
Is that not wanting to not serve the flesh?

Things like this are not one off things, but the effect of a cause.
If I'm right then the cause needs to dealt with.
If not then it's a constant struggle.

We could even pose the question.

Is working to be saved in the same category?
Its the romans 7 issue maybe? Things you do not want to do you do?

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh has no choice but to serve self. Even if you yourself do not wish to. That is one of the consequences of the fall.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I think I fall into group 2 &3.

I do not wish to offend anyone offensively but lovingly.
This leads me into group 3 if people in group 2 wish to discuss.
As for people who do not know Jesus but want to I'm in group 3.
With either we need to be prepared and walk the walk of discipleship.

With regards to group 1.
I have come to the realisation that there is no point discussing.
Will give it a go.
Taken me a long time but I now shake the dust off my feet sooner rather than later.
Even though it breaks my heart.
I think Jesus heart was broken for the religious people.
I think your talkling about how we treat saved vs unsaved people. I agree. We have to treat them different.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
see here you go. someone disagrees or questions what you say, you go off on a tirade.

this is why I am not going to interact with you , mr. " I know everything and I am never wrong".
you need to learn some humility and let things go.
You have to be talking about mac.

Lol. Its a broken record
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113
Therefore, you and DC are correct that a person is justified by faith through Grace alone, but DC uses the text to teach that a person can be saved their whole life basically without doing anything, and claim they have faith or a new nature. The verse is GREAT. Using the verse to produce such an argument IS NOT.

How much do you suppose is required?🙄

Lol.

God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.


I'll give you a story of a different man, you keep posting over and over again swinging at air.


This is from me, not brother dave.


There is a man who loves to drink
he loves to swear and be violent
he is bitter and holds grudges to the point of wanting harm on others
he is a fornicator
he loves,it and doesn't regret a moment of it
he loves to fight and eat junk food and smoke
he lies and manipulates and is very lazy every chance he gets....


this man hears God call

he tries to ignore it... but he ends up hearing the gospel

and it sinks in.... there is a core belief

now paired with the understanding he is in trouble

he is still lacking wisdom so he dives deeper into the word


at first he has many misconceptions

but God uses His children and His word to answer this mans prayers and shine light on the truth

this man now understands the saving gospel

he understands Jesus died for his sins

he understands the cost of sin

he understands that God is offering a free give of grace and ETERNAL life


God does not need one... not even one drop of outward evidence to see if this faith is genuine....

if this man is born again

he is saved
works do not prove he is saved

and lack of works before the eyes of man do not prove he isnt



now this man does not fornicate
but still struggles with lust sometimes in his thoughts <- before God his works dont justify him


before man he improved
but before God he will always need Jesus's righteousness which is by faith

this man no longer swears or is violent or even holds grudges ... but still has a temper and gets angry <- still misses the mark before God

this man still drinks too much from time to time

but instead of being joyful... it breaks his heart and he cries to God


where are this mans works....

to you it is impossible he is saved?

at what point can he be saved... how many works do you feel are required to justify a man before another man....


no one has argued against God working new desires in us and chastening us and making us turn from sin

you come to a thread which gives GOD GLORY AND PRAISE for salvation


His wonderful gift

then you bicker and ramble trying to point to works of man


why?

start an encouragement for walking with a clean heart thread unless you disagree we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
yes, after a full fledged meltdown over the weekend, he took a few hours off, and now the temper tantrums tirades have resumed...
I guess he thinks his temper-tantrums are going to get people to listen to him?
 
May 1, 2019
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Lol😂

....wait

are you serious?

why post something for "everyone" but quote me just rambling over and over again


oh goodness...


are you sober?

EVERYONE here needs to stop the insults and inuendo before you go any further and ask yourselves; " Am I behaving charitably to my fellow believer?" If not you are acting our of devilish PRIDE! Rid yourself of this...
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113
EVERYONE here needs to stop the insults and inuendo before you go any further and ask yourselves; " Am I behaving charitably to my fellow believer?" If not you are acting our of devilish PRIDE! Rid yourself of this...
🤔

May I ask why you quoted me?



My sober question was a genuine question, not an insult or inuendo.

If you go back and read the last 40 pages or so, I think you would understand a bit more.


Is the account you are on right now "simplegardener" the only CC account you have ever posted on?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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How much do you suppose is required?🙄

Lol.

God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.


I'll give you a story of a different man, you keep posting over and over again swinging at air.


This is from me, not brother dave.


There is a man who loves to drink
he loves to swear and be violent
he is bitter and holds grudges to the point of wanting harm on others
he is a fornicator
he loves,it and doesn't regret a moment of it
he loves to fight and eat junk food and smoke
he lies and manipulates and is very lazy every chance he gets....


this man hears God call

he tries to ignore it... but he ends up hearing the gospel

and it sinks in.... there is a core belief

now paired with the understanding he is in trouble

he is still lacking wisdom so he dives deeper into the word


at first he has many misconceptions

but God uses His children and His word to answer this mans prayers and shine light on the truth

this man now understands the saving gospel

he understands Jesus died for his sins

he understands the cost of sin

he understands that God is offering a free give of grace and ETERNAL life


God does not need one... not even one drop of outward evidence to see if this faith is genuine....

if this man is born again

he is saved
works do not prove he is saved

and lack of works before the eyes of man do not prove he isnt



now this man does not fornicate
but still struggles with lust sometimes in his thoughts <- before God his works dont justify him


before man he improved
but before God he will always need Jesus's righteousness which is by faith

this man no longer swears or is violent or even holds grudges ... but still has a temper and gets angry <- still misses the mark before God

this man still drinks too much from time to time

but instead of being joyful... it breaks his heart and he cries to God


where are this mans works....

to you it is impossible he is saved?

at what point can he be saved... how many works do you feel are required to justify a man before another man....


no one has argued against God working new desires in us and chastening us and making us turn from sin

you come to a thread which gives GOD GLORY AND PRAISE for salvation


His wonderful gift

then you bicker and ramble trying to point to works of man


why?

start an encouragement for walking with a clean heart thread unless you disagree we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ
My response that you originally took issue with was a perfectly valid response to DC's use of Romans 4 to present an argument for a person being saved their whole life without ever showing any love for God or neighbor, which is what being saved 50 years would basically mean. Not a bad verse. It was a good verse to support a bad argument.

Sorry you can't deal with that.

Do you want to debate me, just me and you, one on one, on whether a person who has been born from above can even hypothetically live 50 years and never once do anything for God or man? I'll gladly take that debate in a heartbeat.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113
My response that you originally took issue with was a perfectly valid response to DC's use of Romans 4 to present an argument for a person being saved their whole life without ever showing any love for God or neighbor, which is what being saved 50 years would basically mean. Not a bad verse. It was a good verse to support a bad argument.

Sorry you can't deal with that.

Do you want to debate me, just me and you, one on one, on whether a person who has been born from above can even hypothetically live 50 years and never once do anything for God or man? I'll gladly take that debate in a heartbeat.


I haven't asked to speak with or debate you, you quoted me then starting fighting against the words of others calling me an accuser and rambling, while never addressing the context of MY posts.


If you keep talking about some words someone else said and wanting me to argue for them, you will end up wasting your time.





vvvvv



How much do you suppose is required?🙄



God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.


I'll give you a story of a different man, you keep posting over and over again swinging at air.


This is from me, not brother dave.


There is a man who loves to drink
he loves to swear and be violent
he is bitter and holds grudges to the point of wanting harm on others
he is a fornicator
he loves,it and doesn't regret a moment of it
he loves to fight and eat junk food and smoke
he lies and manipulates and is very lazy every chance he gets....


this man hears God call

he tries to ignore it... but he ends up hearing the gospel

and it sinks in.... there is a core belief

now paired with the understanding he is in trouble

he is still lacking wisdom so he dives deeper into the word


at first he has many misconceptions

but God uses His children and His word to answer this mans prayers and shine light on the truth

this man now understands the saving gospel

he understands Jesus died for his sins

he understands the cost of sin

he understands that God is offering a free give of grace and ETERNAL life


God does not need one... not even one drop of outward evidence to see if this faith is genuine....

if this man is born again

he is saved
works do not prove he is saved

and lack of works before the eyes of man do not prove he isnt



now this man does not fornicate
but still struggles with lust sometimes in his thoughts <- before God his works dont justify him


before man he improved
but before God he will always need Jesus's righteousness which is by faith

this man no longer swears or is violent or even holds grudges ... but still has a temper and gets angry <- still misses the mark before God

this man still drinks too much from time to time

but instead of being joyful... it breaks his heart and he cries to God


where are this mans works....

to you it is impossible he is saved?

at what point can he be saved... how many works do you feel are required to justify a man before another man....


no one has argued against God working new desires in us and chastening us and making us turn from sin

you come to a thread which gives GOD GLORY AND PRAISE for salvation


His wonderful gift

then you bicker and ramble trying to point to works of man


why?

start an encouragement for walking with a clean heart thread unless you disagree we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ