100% Election 100% of the time.

It is you that has misrepresented election. Hence what you are trying to present is another gospel.

All those scriptures that you have presented are true. But they do not show a conditional election as you propose.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So the Whosoever and the World become those which the Father has drawn, unconditional election.

Romans 9:15-16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


It seems very strange to me to propose that there is some inherent good in people that God would foresee and give His Gifts to these people. And then argue later on that it wasn't God being Sovereign but it was Mans Free Will and Choice that made God do it.

I believe so God HAS to save me = no, not scriptural

God has saved me which is the reason I believe = yes, scriptural

The point of the proverb is that God created people to see and hear. The futility is in thinking God doesn't see or hear the evil man knows he's doing and speaking. You're making God's work futile,

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Lk.1:17

What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? Isa.5:4

The epitome of which is Christ on earth.

Some complementary excerpts....

Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

1 Tim 1:13

though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus

1 Thess 1

For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction

2 Thess 2

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Mr. PennEd we have had this discussion before.

It is not our decision that causes us to be saved ....it is our belief.

Those who state make a decision for Christ or turn from sin and let Jesus rule you life are not preaching the correct Gospel.

Our belief does not lead to a boast...I rather think that it is those who think that God imbued, infused faith in them that have the platform from which to boast.

Do you believe your wife loves you? Did you have to muster that up?

i could boast that i was special enough that God chose me instead of some other person just as easily as i could boast that i was special enough chose God where some other person didn't.

neither would be righteous - i have nothing that i didn't receive, even my own existence

as some say, there is 'a ditch on either side of the road'

My dad used to say, "Keep it between the ditches."

"it is our belief"

Too close to boasting for comfort IMO.

But what if God wants us to believe?

if God is for us, who could be against us??

Unconditional election eliminates works, boasting, pride and Glorifies God, yes. But more to the point, it is undoubtedly supported by Scripure.

There is a selection no doubt about that. This based upon Gods Grace alone. Certainly not predicated on ourselves....we were rebels and condemned already. Frankly we were not around to be involved. God chose Israel before they were around too.

Thats more to my liking!

You do realize that when you postulate that God selects who to save, God becomes morally ambiguous?

Not to me. I in trust God's judgement.
God took it upon Himself by Himself to save me. Im just thrilled about the whole thing honestly.

Okay, Sorry Mr. cv5, while I have learned from many of your posts........... this is why "Calvinism" or "Tulip" is a problem.

You believed and God quickened your spirit.

Belief is the criteria and that is why we can trust His judgement because the criteria is the same for everyone.....and this is why He is NOT the morally ambiguous God of TULIP

I am no Calvinist. Or any other ism or ist. I'm looking to understand the Scriptures. Frankly I am lacking, slow and rather doltish....but there is no way I'm going to let that impede me. Jesus is calling.... I'm going.

"The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price."

Softly and Tenderly....

But you still haven't dug down to the bottom. Where did that faith, that you believe come from, and why doesn't EVERYBODY believe if given that faith?