What we believe,or what God says?

I take from Genesis to Revelations as all for my basis of my faith walk in God. I am however non- judgemental and will not argue. A good debate is another matter

Not to argue ( ) but debate and argue are synonymous Though debate is not given as a synonym for argue, argue is given as a strong synonym for debate. They do seem to have different connotations, but the act is the same, that being when two opposing or conflicting points of view are presented and discussed What I find interesting in these discussions is people who will accuse me of not believing the Bible, when what they present is not even in the Bible to begin with.

Not to argue ( ) but debate and argue are synonymous Though debate is not given as a synonym for argue, argue is given as a strong synonym for debate. They do seem to have different connotations, but the act is the same, that being when two opposing or conflicting points of view are presented and discussed What I find interesting in these discussions is people who will accuse me of not believing the Bible, when what they present is not even in the Bible to begin with.

Now here is a good example of false doctrine on a Christian forum.

1. OSAS means "Once saved always saved".

2. But the true Bible doctrine is called "the eternal security of the believer".

3. Is it true or not? Preston says it is not scriptural but he is seriously mistaken.

4. The Bible will show that the eternal security of the believer is guaranteed by God.

5. On what basis is it guaranteed by God? It is based upon who Christ is and what He accomplished for our redemption in His death, burial, and resurrection.

6. What did Jesus Himself says about the eternal security of the believer? That is the bottom line. Therefore if you do not believe His words, then you really do not believe God and Christ.

7. Here is just one Scripture out of dozens which establish the eternal security of the believer, and these are the words of Christ: And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:39,40)

What is God the Father's will? The eternal security of the believer.

Who has the Father given to the Son? All those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

What does "I should lose nothing mean"? Exactly what it says. That not a single believer will be lost.

What does "raise him up at the last day mean"? Exactly what it says. The resurrection of the believer is guaranteed by God and Christ. And this is repeated twice in this passage.

What else is the will of the Father? That those who believe on the Son shall have everlasting or eternal life, and since that is purely God's gift of grace, it is guaranteed for eternity.

Those who deny the truth of the eternal security of the believer DO NOT BELIEVE GOD AND CHRIST.

Really?...please show me ....and do not use scripture which says ....no one can take you from me...ok? That is after G-d's judgement and declaration that I am saved...which occurs after physical death. Otherwise we are...born again while here on this earth.

Your contention is with Salvation in the first place.

Not with OSAS.

OSAS says Once Saved, Always Saved.

You say, never really saved and therefore never really know.

Its not what the scripture says, its not what Christians believe, its your individual belief, probably taught through your church I'm guessing.

John 10:26-29
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


There's scripture which you yourself say you should base your belief on and NOT individual belief. I expect your argument with OSAS is over? lol

Scripture must be our guiding light...not individual beliefs.
Examples;

Baptism not required....really?

See John 3;5 and Acts 2 38-40....and many more.

Andy Stanley says we do not have to be concerned with the Ten Commandments...they do not apply to us.
Really???

OSAS....not scriptural...but there are those who believe that. Really ?....Scriptures prove that belief wrong.

I can site you many more.....are you saying regardless of scriptures...we must follow beliefs?

I urge you to review that thought further.

Isn't it hard, sometimes, to talk to people about beliefs without offending them?

I know I always try to tread lightly but the deeper we get into the discussion the more forceful I find myself becoming.

I've been trying to temper that but the Truth is the Truth and when you know it it is hard not to tell it. Even when it offends...

We are so very diverse and come together from many ethnic and cultural backgrounds. If however you only stand on your beliefs,do you err? What says God in His inspired word? We should ALL pray before taking up the word to look upon the TRUTH! Jesus is that truth,the way and the life!. We must be spirit lead when studying his word,that we dont" lean unto our own understanding".... Just food for thought!

I see where everyone is coming from. But the walk is more than belief and what the bible says.
Someone said "all we have is belief"
I resist that.
The reason is,so many have an abstract God. He is "out there somewhere"
To know Him is in intimacy. In a deep love. In an obcession of Him and for Him. I cast off myself. I obsess over Him PERSONALLY, not solo about Him.

The other thing is our testimony. Our testimony is not a belief. It is a tangeable dna of spirit and mind and saturates our being in awesome awe of what He did. He invaded me. He is real. So real i touch Him regularly. He touches me.
Just this morning we sat in each others presence. I fought off that feeling of unworthyness and He met me with covenant. Reminded me vividly of our relationship because of family, or position. I am cleansed,made a holy vessel. And worthy because of Him.
If belief is all there is and a bible, that is what religion can help us with.
Heaven extends a ladder. God comes down to us. Religion errects a ladder to heaven. Religion works to get to heaven. Building that ladder one rung at a time.
We fellowship with Him BEYOND what Adam had. Because we "passed through fire".
Adam failed.
We become Attached,immersed,and melted into one who can never fail.
He is way,way,way beyond belief and a bible.
But more than that he seeks us. Pursues us. Then overtakes us. We become his pleasure.

Your contention is with Salvation in the first place.

Not with OSAS.

OSAS says Once Saved, Always Saved.

You say, never really saved and therefore never really know.

Its not what the scripture says, its not what Christians believe, its your individual belief, probably taught through your church I'm guessing.

John 10:26-29
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


There's scripture which you yourself say you should base your belief on and NOT individual belief. I expect your argument with OSAS is over? lol

Isn't it hard, sometimes, to talk to people about beliefs without offending them?

I know I always try to tread lightly but the deeper we get into the discussion the more forceful I find myself becoming.

I've been trying to temper that but the Truth is the Truth and when you know it it is hard not to tell it. Even when it offends...

To me it depends upon how reasonable (or not) they are, or they remain. Those who know me aa bit know how hard I fought for peace, serenity and the love of God. If (when) they descend into name calling, making accusations and vehemently defending reasoning that seems illogical. It becomes obvious that they are becoming angry and irrational. I must take cation not to "go down the rabbit hole" with them.

My serenity is worth more than winning an argument. The wor says be angry but do not sin. maybe they are just not ready, yet. As long as I have stated the case for my Lord with love, logic and scripture. I feel safe to walk away in order they can have time to calm down and allow the word and the Holy Spirit to minister to them.

I have a bad habit; I'm used to having 5 min to edit after I post. Most people don't follow closely enough to miss anything. You are a little quicker than most. OOooops, my bad!