Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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John
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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Put that in context of scripture please
2 Timothy 2:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,274
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I am sorry but OSAS Eternal security isnt based on the bible as a "Whole" a few scriptures are taken out to make a whole doctrine.
Either a doctrine is in the Bible and it is true, or it is not in the Bible at all and it is not true. I have not found a single verse in the Bible that clearly says that once a person is saved they will always be saved. Not even close . . .
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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"Stop sinning" is just another phrase for turning towards the law ... and the law was not able to save.
Not necessarily so - Surely we our aim is to stop sinning the way we have in the past and to become more like Christ.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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The churches make people sheep. Because of the indoctrination.
??????? Only the new birth makes a person a "sheep", and churches do not cause the new birth!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
John
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Well Mr Oyster is this about salvation or sanctification?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Not necessarily so - Surely we our aim is to stop sinning the way we have in the past and to become more like Christ.
We do not promise to stop sinning when we come to Jesus.... the gift of salvation is not a reward for our human effort.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
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??????? Only the new birth makes a person a "sheep", and churches do not cause the new birth!
I am not referring to the bible. It's my own personal comment about group thinking and following the crowd. Getting all your ideas from preachers on YouTube or on TV. Churches are brainwashing people into a certain kind of thinking. This is why everyone has similar statements.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,156
1,974
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I left OSAS because I had no victory over my sin in my life for 3 years, […] Also myself and my family. I was crying for 3 years while in OSAS for God to deliver me from my alcohol problems but I never heard an answer, I was in the darkest point of my life.
In one post, you said you weren't even saved (at that time).

In what way did you grasp [or not] the following:

1 John 5 -

9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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I left OSAS because I had no victory over my sin in my life for 3 years, I was in despair and left that gospel and I saw the destruction this gospel did to my family. All it did is create fake Christians who were religious, that go to church on a sunday. Nothing more. Most people in my church didnt speak about God that Much. And I saw something wasnt quite right with this kind of teaching and the people I went to church with. Also myself and my family. I was crying for 3 years while in OSAS for God to deliver me from my alcohol problems but I never heard an answer, I was in the darkest point of my life. Until I left this kind of teaching, that made me so confused. And alot of the people in OSAS dont have fire for God. I could never understand why I went to a church where people didn't want to talk about God?

So I am glad I left these corrupt church systems.
I don't understand why you blame a sure hope and a steadfast trust in God for your sinfulness and the apathy you describe.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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In one post, you said you weren't even saved (at that time).

In what way did you grasp [or not] the following:

1 John 5 -

9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
So your telling me I was saved? While living a wicked lifestyle? Because I was not saved, not according to the bible. Every time I read It i was under Gods condemnation and I even became angry at my bible when following OSAS. Because the word of God made me angry because everytime I would come to a verse about my sin:(
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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I don't understand why you blame a sure hope and a steadfast trust in God for your sinfulness and the apathy you describe.
My hope wasnt secure. And I felt it when I opened my bible.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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But the bible does. Everyone that confesses the name of the lord MUST turn away from wickedness.
Why would we care what the Bible says if we are independent thinkers?

Only sheep let the scripture do their thinking for them ;)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
So your telling me I was saved? While living a wicked lifestyle? Because I was not saved, not according to the bible. Every time I read It i was under Gods condemnation and I even became angry at my bible when following OSAS. Because the word of God made me angry because everytime I would come to a verse about my sin:(
Well maybe you were not saved but that has nothing to do with the assurance of the believer.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,274
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We do not promise to stop sinning when we come to Jesus.... the gift of salvation is not a reward for our human effort.
Of course we do not promise to stop sinning - that would be foolhardy and would fail every time! But with the power of the Spirit we sure do make it our goal to stop sinning like we did in the past.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
So your telling me I was saved? While living a wicked lifestyle? Because I was not saved, not according to the bible. Every time I read It i was under Gods condemnation and I even became angry at my bible when following OSAS. Because the word of God made me angry because everytime I would come to a verse about my sin:(
I have more peace now because I have hope without condemnation. When I open my bible I dont feel offended by what I read. I actually have peace. Because the gospel I follow Commands me to turn from sin, this is what I am doing and I have no feelings of condemnation.