Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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It talks about the Saints having patience. And they are the ones who "kept the commandments of God".
No where in this scripture Is a "false convert" mentioned. OSAS teaching again. FALSE CONVERT ARGUMENT.
 

Nat2019

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No where is a FALSE CONVERT mentioned in these scriptures. Your ideas come from OSAS teaching.
 

Nat2019

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- Your comment-Those that take the mark of the beast are not saved. Where does it say that here in this bunch of scriptures?
 

Nat2019

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Some,

1 John 2 says in reality some will depart. But they were never of us.

Not everyone who goes to church is saved. Was not true in Johns day, Pauls day, is not true today.
Why would you depart If you were never of the faith.

You would just be referred to as an unbeliever. A sinner according to God.
 

Nat2019

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Actually according to God. Anyone who sins is lost. Apart from grace.

And according to NOSAS. They judge the worse sinners (adulterers and murderers) as people who are not saved. While excusing their sins as not really sins at all.

Once again, You are not understanding what grace believers truly believe, your trying to insert into you thinking what you THINK they believe, and you are wrong.

I mean, David was a prety bad sinner, As was abraham. As was many OT saints.

If what you say was true, OSAS people would declare them not saved, because they wer nto good enough (a legalistic term, no OSAS person believes ANYONE is good enough)
Who is deceived?

*A person who gets their teachings from some person who "burnt another person at the stake, for having different beliefs or;

A person who doesn't get their ideas from a man "who burnt someone at the stake, for having different religious beliefs?
 

Nat2019

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Some = churches

We see this happening today. One would need to be blind to realize many older traditional chruches are departing from the faith, and things which those churches once stood for.

It is not talking about people
In stead of interpreting it with your own comments. Read it for what it is.
 

Nat2019

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Like if you think OSAS believers, reply with giant comments, with statements not relating to the bible. If you think most comments just go on about how deceived a person is "who doesnt agree with" John Calvin's theology.

Like if you think OSAS believers don't like to read the scriptures for "what they are".

*Apparently most scriptures in the NT dont apply for today, according to them. They are directed at a group of people personally. Only ones about "belief" apply?. All other scriptures have no benefit to our lives, do they.
 

Nat2019

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John saids they were never saved, Period. John can not contradict himself. He wrote both passages.

If you want a bible that contradicts itself. Feel free. We will interpret the bible to make it one message, in 100% agreement.
You need to view two sides of a coin. See both scriptures not 1.
 

Nat2019

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The Jews whom Paul was trying to teach were making the exact same arguments you have written above.

You slander grace and you make your self effort the winner.

Blaming the grace of God for sin is your perverted logic here....but you cannot see it can you?

Paul was not impressed and had some stern words of warning for them, dig deep into Romans and you will learn why your slander against grace is in fact the antithesis of the Gospel and why Paul made the statement below.

King James Bible
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

New Living Translation
And some people even slander us by claiming that we say, “The more we sin, the better it is!” Those who say such things deserve to be condemned.
Romans 3:8
Where have I SLANDERED grace in any of my messages?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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You seem to believe in a pre-trib rapture of the Church, which is what I also believe in. So yes, technically the church will not exist during the Tribulation period. That means all of us are saved from having to make that choice.

But those remaining Gentiles who did not believe during the church age, as well as the Jewish nation who rejected Jesus, will find that it is way harder to be saved during the Tribulation, than during the grace dispensation. It will no longer be by faith alone apart from works, as the NT books from Hebrews to Revelations explained many times.
Yes, I am pre-trib... and though you and I may have some differences in our views (regarding this doctrine), I THINK we both agree that the passages stating "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" apply DURING the very specific, future, limited time period leading up to Christ's Second Coming to the earth (during the time period FOLLOWING our Rapture), and not like how Calvinists [etc] try to apply it to "this present age [singular]" (i.e. NOW), skewing its true application (and also its actual meaning), and, basically wreaking havoc... in the minds of those impacted by such [incorrect] teachings.

Also, I think perhaps you and I agree that Luke 21:36 is not a "Rapture" verse, but applies at the specific time period (like the above) FOLLOWING our Rapture (DURING the trib years):

Luke 21:36 -

Berean Literal Bible -
"Watch also at every season, praying that you may have strength to escape [(active) flee out of] all these things that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man."

King James Bible -
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape [(active) flee out of] all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."


[the above verse, applying (as specific [and direct] "instruction") to those on the earth following our Rapture, DURING the tribulation period (7-yrs/70th-Wk) being completely DISTINCT from that which was stated to/for/about "the Church which is His body" (US), in 1Th5:9-10, "...Who died for us, [in order] that, whether we may watch [same Greek word as in v.6] OR whether we may sleep [same Grk word as in v.6 (NOT the Grk word used for "sleep/died" in chpt 4!)] we should live together WITH [G4862 ('UNIONED-with')] HIM"]


Do we see these several passages in the same way? Meaning especially the ones that pertain specifically to the future tribulation period (following our Rapture/Departure)… so that, those two [basically two] passages that are often misapplied to "this present age" actually pertain to a very specific limited future time period (following our Rapture).