Not By Works

I emphasize with you here and yes, it is quite clear that your "debate opponent" is not one that practices the habit of Stephen Covey "seek first to understand then to be understood".

You are quite brave to step into this thread hoping to change the general view here. I think this thread has reached a certain equilibrium and the thread starter, plus some of those who support his view, want to preserve that equilibrium.

Viewpoints like yours threaten the stability of that equilibrium and hence, like what we learn in mathematical models of dynamic systems, will call forth opposing viewpoints that will attempt to push yours away.

Come on now. The warnings to the churches in Rev. 2 & 3 are about losing "church authority"? Jesus was warning them about losing their crown of life. Talk about not grasping context.

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Rev. 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev.2:11

He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life Rev.3:5

A. "eat from the Tree of Life"

B. "not hurt by the second death"

C. and a promise to not "blot his name out of the book of life" if he overcomes

And you think Jesus is talking about "church authority"?

Even a "circus clown" like me can see the context is spiritual life and death.

I emphasize with you here and yes, it is quite clear that your "debate opponent" is not one that practices the habit of Stephen Covey "seek first to understand then to be understood".

You are quite brave to step into this thread hoping to change the general view here. I think this thread has reached a certain equilibrium and the thread starter, plus some of those who support his view, want to preserve that equilibrium.

Viewpoints like yours threaten the stability of that equilibrium and hence, like what we learn in mathematical models of dynamic systems, will call forth opposing viewpoints that will attempt to push yours away.

Well I wont remove this scripture from the bible All Gods scriptures are important to me

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will (depart from the faith) by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Keep dreaming pal....stirring the candle stick away is about authority and every one of the cited examples you tried to use to peddle the lie of losing salvation is lumped under the victory of FAITH genius....and you got that right....a circus clown indeed

Wow everyone in OSAS agrees with your behaviour this is how I know this gospel is false. You should be rebuked by fellow believers.

Did you quote any verses yet that stated the Pharisees done anything in the name of JESUS?.....didn't think so......

Go whine some place else.....from day one you have been deceiving, skewing, changing context, embellishing, bait and switching and proving no honesty and or integrity......

By the way.....the sell diapers at Walmart or, in your case NAPPIES at Coles, Woolworths or maybe even Target.....

Your not a Christian please dont full yourself. Nothing in you reflects Jesus what so ever.
This is why I turned away from a such a gospel. I am glad I did now. Because I don't want to be part of this hypocrisy anyone. Real Christian's strive to do what's right. Nothing in you cares about what's right and that's evident in your behavior. Your behavior also shows you lack love for God, because you purposely ignore all his commands. In the end that will be your fault not mine. You can answer to God for your behaviour towards others. This is why people hate religion because of this hypocrisy they see.

Go whine some place else.....from day one you have been deceiving, skewing, changing context, embellishing, bait and switching and proving no honesty and or integrity......

By the way.....the sell diapers at Walmart or, in your case NAPPIES at Coles, Woolworths or maybe even Target.....

By the way there is nothing wrong with selling nappies In woolworths, Coles or Target. I will do that. You sound like other OSAS believers in my church group. Who said people in low income housing should be removed from the area because they are (all) drug dealers. Judging people on their income or job isnt right and you might think you are better than others. But God might bring you down low one day, as i was. And make you HUMBLE.

For the deceivers that no one has salvation yet......verb tense proves your stance erroneous......EMBRACE truth....get right and quit peddling deceit......and make no mistake.....I could post dozens more.......even DAVID spoke of HIS salvation in the present TENSE....

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost


He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Where it says and that not of yourselves but is a gift of God and not of works. Is it referring to the faith or grace being not of ourselves?

You might want to re-read.......because it obviously went way above your head........and try context this time....here I will help...

SINCE you are whining I SAID...THEY SELL NAPPIES at..........I did not in any way, shape or FORM indicate your class or level of financial influence.......

No wonder you do not understand the bible....You cannot even get the context of plain English right when engaged

You might want to re-read.......because it obviously went way above your head........and try context this time....here I will help...

SINCE you are whining I SAID...THEY SELL NAPPIES at..........I did not in any way, shape or FORM indicate your class or level of financial influence.......

No wonder you do not understand the bible....You cannot even get the context of plain English right when engaged

Where it says and that not of yourselves but is a gift of God and not of works. Is it referring to the faith or grace being not of ourselves?

It is directed at the faith that saves......this truth is also found in the verse that states....If we become faithless HE abides FAITHFUL because he cannot deny himself

This is how I break it down...

In the grace you are <---positioning and also bears out in Romans 5:1-2
Having been saved by faith <---the element that saves faith and testified to in a plethora of scripture
and that NOT of YOURSELVES <----the element that saves and salvation itself is NOT of US
It is the GIFT of GOD <---salvation cannot be earned....a gift is freely given
and NOT of works LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST <----exactly why NO WORKS will ever SAVE ANYONE if so we can brag

It is ALL JESUS or it is fraudulent......not of GOD, false and of the devil.....

The warnings against apostasy and loosing your salvation are plentiful,

Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Colossians 1:21-23 - Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 - Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

1 John 2:24 - See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. (Obviously your name can be blotted out)

Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

In Rev it even talks about a man's name being blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in and then REMOVED.

Thanks for your reply. I asked this question because I need healing to my knee and at church everybody says your knee is already healed it is because you lack in faith that it hasn't manifested yet. It is due to your unbelief. So I go into this frenzy of trying to build up my faith. So I am trying to find out whether faith comes from God or through our own works. I don't know if that makes sense or not ?

FALSE salvation loser.....