Works can NEVER earn salvation

I am trying to tell you that, before the grace dispensation given to Paul by the ascended Christ, you need to show your faith by your works, in order to be saved.

But now, it is faith apart from works. We are saved just by believing in Jesus's DBR.

AND that is false

I am the Lord thy God I change NOT.......

and Romans 4 and the testimony of Abraham and David PROVES your drivel is false.

Until you are willing to explain Genesis 4:6-7, you can say whatever you want.

And you can continue to think this is laughing matter while rejecting the words of David and Abraham by Paul.....you will find out how wrong you are one day and it is going to be an extremely bad day for you pal

Amen! It was by or "out of" faith that Abel offered a sacrifice. Abel's faith was evidenced by his obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous (Hebrews 11:4). Cain, who was of the evil one, instead demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12) and Abel offered his sacrifice by or "out of" faith and Cain did not. Cain's offering demonstrated a lack of faith. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.

It is not that we are so "focused" on works. It's that OSAS supporters cannot see the forest for the trees. God has always expected and insisted that His directions were to be followed regardless of our sensibilities. From the sons of Aaron not using the correct fire to Uzzah touching the Ark. God expects our compliance in order to receive His blessings, this is the flow and form of the Bible.

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7

People need to consider this.

When we first have faith, and confess Christ, and repented of our sins, we have not received the Spirit before that time, and we must believe the truth while we are still operating in the flesh, for that is why it is faith, and not saved by works, for being in the flesh that is all we can do to be saved is to have faith.

Although no person can come to the Son unless the Father draws them, so it is God that intervened in our life when He called us to help us to get to the truth, but we do not receive the Spirit that will work in our life, and become a new creature until we have faith, confess Christ, and repent of our sins.

For to receive the Spirit before that time the same as after we do those things would mean that we would not have to confess those things, for we would be saved before we did it.

So we are in the flesh when we do those things, so all we can have is faith, and none of our works while in the flesh can save us.

So when Paul says we are saved by faith, and not by works, it is when we initially confess Christ.

But when we receive the Spirit then Paul's stance is different for then it is from a spiritual perspective, and not when we first had faith before receiving the Spirit.

Love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law, for if we love people perfectly which we can only do by the Spirit then we are right with God.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and hope, and love is the greatest asset a person can possess.

Faith, and hope, and only needed on this earth, not in heaven, but love will go on forever, and love is the fulfilling of the law, not faith.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love, for everything that has to do with our salvation stems from love.

When we are saved what we are doing is learning to love perfectly, which in the world no one could do as it is motivated by the ways of the flesh, which is selfishness, and arrogance.

Love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, so if a person lacks love then their faith lacks.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

This is the definition of love, that it is not arrogant, and not selfish, and does not behave wrongly, is easy to forgive, thinks no evil let alone do the act, does not rejoice in iniquity, for it hates sin, and does not want it, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sin, which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

If a person lacks love that is defined by Paul then they are not being led of the Spirit, then they will not love perfectly, then their faith will lack, for to have true faith is to believe the truth concerning love that the Holy Spirit will lead a person to do, and faith works by love.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said he could have all faith so he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity, love in action, then he is nothing.

And charity, love in action, is only going by your needs, not your wants, and if you have money above your needs to help the poor and needy, for they are more important than going by your wants, and your wants are not a necessity, but loving people is a necessity, and helping people with whatever they need help with.

That is why Paul pointed out that a person could have all faith so they could remove mountains, but if they do not have charity they are nothing, for love is the fulfilling of the law, and faith works by love.

And charity is love in action, works, and that is the only way that love can be applied in your life is if it is done by action, and that is why the Bible calls it charity, and we know when people are physically involved in helping people they call it charity, for it is a physical action, and not in word, and in tongue, for that is not charity, but only saying you love someone, although it can boost their spirit, and make them feel good.

Charity is a term for physical action, a work.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Paul says if any person preaches that God blesses them with money, and material things, for their wants, which they think that gain is godliness, to withdraw yourself from them, having food and clothing be content, for God only blesses us with our needs, and wants us to help out the poor and needy if we can.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Which the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, which would also cover caring about the prosperity of people to have their needs met, but people that love money will neglect that in favor of loving to cater to their wants.

And we know many people believe the prosperity Gospel, and go by their wants, so where do you think their faith is at if they lack love.

Paul said if they love money, and go by their wants, then they have erred from the faith, for they lack in love, so their faith lacks.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James points out charity the same as Paul, by saying if people have the means to help people with their needs, and they do not do it then what does it profit them, for can faith save them in that circumstance, which faith cannot save them in that circumstance if they lack love, for love is greater than faith.

And James says in that circumstance of falling short of love then their faith is dead, the same thing as Paul saying they have erred from the faith.

So Paul and James say the same thing all the while people argue back and forth about them, which there cannot be a contradiction in scriptures, and they take a side, and do not try to harmonize the scriptures.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James says that by works a person is justified, and not by faith only, so why do they argue about it, and deny it, for those works are works of love, charity, and love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Which Paul testifies to that by saying without charity, love in action, works, then they are nothing, and they have erred from the faith.

So why do they argue between them.

Continued,

Continued,

Saved by faith alone, and not by works, when we initially confess Christ, for that is all we can do, but then when we receive the Spirit it is a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

But they want to drag not saved by works throughout their walk with Christ.

But it is being led of the Spirit, and doing the works of the Spirit, those works, which are of love, but we have to want to do those works first before the Spirit will lead us to do those works.

But they will say if we have the Spirit we will do those works, then why the lack of doing those works then with people loving money, and enjoying their wants, and engaging in sin, which love does not think an evil thought, which we can witness in society among many of them.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Bible plainly states that this is what seals the saints, that they depart from iniquity, for love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.

For to sin is to be not led of the Spirit, and to sin is to not love perfectly, for to sin is not to be led of the Spirit to love perfectly.

Then your faith lacks, for your love lacks.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Again John points out charity the same as Paul and James, and says if a person has this world's good, which they have money above their needs, and does not care about helping the poor and needy, then the love of God does not dwell in them, for God wants people to be fed and clothed, not blessing the saints with their wants.

And John said do not love in word, or in tongue, but love in deed and in truth, works, charity, love in action.

For that is the only way love can apply in your life is if it is done in action, charity.

But many people will not want to hear it even though Paul said it, and James said it, and John said it.

We have to have works of love to have faith in our life to be saved, but many people lack this love, and say we are not saved by works, all the while going by their wants, and engaging in sins.

So where does their faith stand.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Jesus plainly states that they left their first love, and to repent, and to do the first works, or He would go against them if they did not repent, and do those works.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Jesus plainly states that He did not find their works perfect before God, and told them to repent, and do the works God wants them to do, and if they do not repent then He would go against them.

So Jesus takes a different stance concerning works in a Christian's life, than some people that claim Christ that do not understand the scriptures.

It appears Jesus says that works are important.

And again for people that say if they have the Spirit they will do those works, then why the lack of those works then, for if you are lacking then obviously you are not led of the Spirit.

We know many people who claim Christ in America go by their wants, enjoying the world as the world enjoys it, and we know it for a fact that cannot be denied.

So where does their faith lie.

But they will think they are alright.

Hi again Guojing, getting "right" with God/pleasing and glorifying Him in the here and now by what we do is one thing, but Abel being "saved" by his obedience to God is quite another. That's why your original question was answered the way it was by most of us.

We (OT/NT) are saved by faith in the Person and works of Another, by an alien righteousness credited to our accounts by God (merited for us by Jesus the Messiah), not by a personal righteousness of our own that is merited from what ~we~ do instead.

Our progenitors were under a covenant of works, until they disobeyed God in the Garden and needed a Savior, that is. And as transgressors of the law along with them now, our only hope is to be forgiven, justified and saved from the wrath of the Almighty by the blood of Jesus .. Romans 5:8-10, and to be the recipients of His righteousness (earned for us by His righteous life) by grace through faith, so that we can abide in His presence in the eternity to come.


~Deut

Regardless of what was "evidenced" it was the act that was the point/moment of being commended. God expects and insist that we act on our faith. Yes faith is a must but so is the proper response to that faith.

The blind man at the Pool of Siloam had faith but it was the act or work of washing that gave him his sight.

Can you truly not see this?

To the Author of the OP: True!

To sum up

God required works in the ot for people to demonstrate faith for salvation.

But now faith for salvation requires us to cease from our works, and trust in Jesus finished works.

You have raised a good point At that time, faith must be demonstrated by the correct work, which involves offering an animal sacrifice.

God was gracious enough to give Cain a second chance to offer the right sacrifice. Some interpretation of verse 7 says that God even provided the correct sin offering for him, waiting outside his door. He just need to take it and do the right thing by sacrificing that offering.

But alas Cain would not obey and choose to murder his brother instead. It reminds me of non believers nowadays where they just need to believe in the finished work and cease from their works, but many prefer to work their way to God.

Don't ignore the fact that both Cain and Able had faith in God.

When the people asked Jesus, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” He replied, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent” (Joh_6:28-29).

Works for God follow as a result of our faith in Him. If we do not believe in God, we cannot do HIS works to perform.

I suspect there will be many others here who will dispute with you that Cain had faith in God. The bible only stated in Genesis 4 account that Cain refused to do what God commanded him to do, even after God reminded him explicitly after that first rejection.

As to whether he believed that the correct sacrifice would have worked, but just that he refused to do it, you have to make an argument from silence.

Its like kids and parents sometimes. Many times, kids may believe that if they do what you tell them, you will be happy with them. But the rebellious nature in them sometimes make them refuse to do it.

Works can NEVER earn salvation

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We do have an identical thread with over 103,000 posts and thousands of views. So is this one necessary?

I agree that works can never earn salvation, so people really need to understand the full meaning of salvation.

Really? And yet Cain is not mentioned in Hebrews 11? Or are you throughly confused?

Cain knew God, spoke with God, and the LORD put a mark on Cain to protect him. Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord into the land of Nod. These were the Keninites. They were pagans. So no, you won't find Cain's name in Hebrews, why, because he was a backslider. He left the presence of God.

And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
(Gen 4:9-16 KJV)

Cain believed in God and:-
"in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD." (Gen 4:3 KJV)

If you meant "He believe in God's existence", that is a given. God kept talking to him, even after he murdered Abel.

But when we talk about belief here, we are talking about "believing in God's instructions on how to approach him in faith".

God may have told him to offer an animal sacrifice before, but he did not follow that. When God reminded him again in Gen 4:6-7, he continue to refuse to follow.