Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Everyone in Christ, walking in the Spirit has a list. Many call it a conscience, many cite them as inherent, and it is hard to disagree. I find it miraculous how a group of sincere believers who walk their faith can function in nearly split second unity to issues that come up to the group! Sure there are discussions of facts and clarifications of intent, but all in all their judgements are IAW the Holy Spirits ever present leadings and never in conflict with scripture. A study of the torah is an affirmation of many many things the Holy Spirit and study of Gods words gives us.

Naturally you would have to say you do not advocate executing sorcerers whether you did or didn't because the Civil and judicial (you know, the guys with black priest robes on) branches of our government recognize their "religious freedoms". Wasn't always the case in this nation. People today who publish comments on the times this country judged according to Christian-morality-and ethics recall those are dark periods of our history. And they were from one perspective, wouldn't you agree? As a nation we once prosecuted infringements on the laws of God within our own families and communities! We were once over 95% rural dwellers too! Now the percentages are reversed! Only 5% of our communities are rural. I might add too that many "matters" in these communities are still settled quickly and Judiciously. In everyone of our county courthouses we have the 10 commandments on display, and in the hallways is a copy of the DOI and Constitution and Magna Carta! I'm not saying the Civil documents are without flaw, but in out communities we strive to place God and His will for order and justice and mercy as our guiding authority. I've rarely been to courts where the Holy Spirit is welcome and relied upon so much as here. It is difficult to find that sort of character in the bigger cities where the diversity of cultures and religion is palatable.

I appreciate your inquisitiveness regarding the Laws and how to consider them. I must be frank with you, I have doubts as to the sincerity of your questions whether that is right or wrong is not the issue though. I certainly do not wish to mischaracterize your sincerity of course, but the issue of the Justice of God in all matters at all levels will never cease to be an issue that our armchair discussions will serve to manage and decide. There's a real world outside our chatrooms that is groaning under the forces of darkness and anything that doesn't serve to bring real light to that world hinders it.

(Note to everyone, the quote referred to above is my words only in the first few lines. The rest are DeighAnn's.)


I say that Christians should follow the law of God that the spirit has written on their heart. I don't think that's the same as the law that Moses wrote down in the wilderness.

If I had to put it back into letters, the law that the spirit wrote on my heart is closest to this
Matthew 7: 12. Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

I don't understand what you mean by follow the letter of the law through the spirit, if that's what you're saying. One is following the letter of the law, or one is not. If one is following a modified version of the letter of the law, then one is not following the letter of the law.

What is your view, then, of the law regarding mixing linen and wool? Does it apply to Cotton polyester as well?

Do you have a list of the moral laws separated out from the others?

Thank you for the nice response, I didn't see a clear answer to the question
The law about not mixing linen and wool was to be handled at the civil level?

Perhaps what sounds like insincerity to you is the result of my asking questions about laws like mixing linen and wool. I do not keep that law. Certainly not in the letter. But it looks to me like just as much of a moral law as anything else in the law of Moses. So if someone says that they keep the moral law, I want to know if they do that as well. Perhaps there is a blessing I'm missing out on. Or maybe they are missing out on something.

Perhaps I should have made the question about a list more specific. Many Jewish websites contain a written list at what they regard as the 613 laws. I think it would be great if someone who says that they can separate the moral law out of the rest of the law would do the same thing, post a written version of the moral law. Do you have a written version of the moral law for your own personal use?

remember when I wanted to discuss the Fruits of the Spirt , and you choose not to?

well. since you mentioned where the Spirt leads you ( the Torah, what a surprise) , would you like to discuss them?

What are you saying?
MY BAD, I relaxed for a moment, forgot where I was and let conversation get casual and a casual one line reply using "words" that could easily, when set by themselves, be "used" however any "Christian" wanted. Silly me, to think on a site as this, I could do such a thing. I am so naïve as to think we are all searching for truth, not ways to deceive each other and look for open backs. I am obviously in the wrong place. You all get together and sing Hallelujah, and God will judge.

look, this is not a " safe space". if you choose to post here, expect criticism .

it seems as if you are saying that the Law is no longer in effect, but we should still be keeping to be proper believers.

if that is not the case, my apology .

but, maybe you could clarify what you are saying.

Why did the Jews crucify Jesus?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Because the Lord Jesus was replacing Moses with Himself. The Lord Jesus was replacing the OT with the NT.

With the Authority of God.


Does this mean that Christians are less Righteous than those who follow Judaism and the law of Moses?
No. Not at all. Christians are MORE Righteous than those who follow Judaism and the law of Moses.


Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


The legalists and judaizers just don't get it. The law doesn't have the power to make them sinless. The law doesn't have the power to make them righteous. The law doesn't have the power to make them holy.

Because their understanding and strength is much less than they assume. And when you bring it up it is hugely offensive to them. Even though it is scriptural and will ultimately help them.

Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Greetings GP,

Very well put!

It is a simple thing isn't it!

Sadly, there is disunity.

It helps to remember that where there is anger, coarseness, rudeness, impatience and the like this is where error lies. Heated debate and even pressing it is good, but the other tactics reveal something else.

I appreciate you working on your delivery GP. It shows.

SG

Yes, I am a keeper of the law. I follow the law. I am a law keeper. I do this because I believe the words of the Lord Jesus Christ when
He said:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

The first covenant had to be "removed" to make room for the 2nd. The Law, which was written in stone, and had to be followed 'PERFECTLY'. If it wasn't there was no way into heaven.

But Jesus CHANGED all that.
Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat this is my body
And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

I keep the law, that law that I find glorious. I teach to keep the law and I repent, and my sins are forgiven, His blood shed washes me clean. And I progress towards perfection.

THE LAW was and still is good. The Law describes for us who GOD is. WHAT He is about and What He is looking for in us. How do WE please HIM.
Sin was forgiven through a blood sacrifice. There were many statutes and ordinances that had to be performed. There were Priests that had to perform those duties. They also were the ones who spoke to God for us. The whole process took lots of time. You stayed in that state of sin until it was accomplished. If you have never read and studied these, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT GRACE REALLY IS and what all that means to you today.

What is Sin? Sin is transgression of the Law. When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, and the prophets He did just that. He walked the perfect life, He fulfilled. All prophecy in the prophets concerning the coming Messiah, He fulfilled.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
The old covenant, could not do what Jesus will do.
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. But the Blood of the Lord does.
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. (REPENTANCE still alive and well)
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Above when He said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law (REPENTANCE still hanging in there)
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.(I qualify under this just the same)
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.(That would be me too!)
Whereof the Holy Spirit also is a witness to us for after that He had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them (They become a part of me, and I love it)
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.(Forgive me Father)
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.(And I can repent, and repent and repent and never ever again will an animal sacrifice be needed to be washed clean)

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

THE OLD IS NOT DESTROYED, HERE IS WHERE JESUS TELLS US they hang. HE ALREADY TOLD US HE DIDN'T COME TO DESTROY. THERE FORE IT IS AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. AND I WILL FOLLOW IT WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL. AND IF I BREAK ONE I HAVE BROKEN THE LAW, BUT IT IS NO LONGER UNTO DEATH.

FOR ME TO BELIEVE IT IS UNTO DEATH, I WOULD HAVE TO BEILIEVE JESUS A LIAR.

I don't believe Jesus is a liar, do you?

This is how Jesus taught us to pray, OUR DAILY BREAD OUR DAILY FORGIVENESS.
And After this manner therefore pray ye,
Our Father, which are in Heaven, Hallowed by Thy name, Thy kingdom come Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven Give us this day, (what day ??? )our daily bread, and FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS as we forgive our debtors and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever Amen

The proud have digged pits for me which are not after thy law
All thy commandments are faithful, they persecute me wrongfully help thou me
They had almost consumed me upon earth but I forsook not thy precepts
Quicken me after thy lovingkindness so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth
Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven
Thy faithfulness is unto all generations, thou hast established the earth and it abideth
They continue this day according to thine ordinances for all are thy servants
Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction
I will never forget thy precepts for with them thou hast quickened me
I am thine save me, for I have sought thy precepts
The wicked have waited for me to destroy me but I will consider thy testimonies
I have seen an end of all perfection but thy commandment is exceeding broad
O how I love thy law!!! it is my meditation all the day
Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies, for they are ever with me
I have more understanding than all my teachers for thy testimonies are my meditation
I understand more than the ancients because I keep thy precepts
I have refrained my feet from every evil way tat I might keep thy word
I have not departed from thy judgments for thou hast taught me
How sweet are thy words unto my taste!!! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth
Through thy precepts I get understanding therefore I hate every false way
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path
I have sworn and I will perform it that I will keep thy righteous judgments
I am afflicted very much quicken me O LORD according unto thy word
Accept I beseech thee the freewill offerings of my mouth O LORD and teach me thy judgments
My soul is continually in my hand yet do I not forget thy law
The wicked have laid a snare for me yet I erred not from thy precepts
Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage forever for they are the rejoicing of my heart
I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes always even unto the end
I hate vain thoughts but thy law do I love

so, I was apparently correct about what I said earlier, to which you chastised me for saying.

are you going to chastise yourself about, in a very wordy, way, about what you said here??

I mean, in a take the plank out of your own eye type thing??

What you did was correct. Thank God you only felt chastised, I was a bit worried I had gone overboard.
Yes, absolutely, and I also Thank you so much for making me focus and really zeroing in on putting into words where I truly stand. I was correct when I said "No, always refer to the Written Word for to know the will of God. We are just not bound to death by breaking one, break them all. They are still Gods laws and should be heeded as such. So no, same laws everyone should use not bound. Hence thief charged same everywhere. What do you think? I have shared, your turn.2628"

NOT so correct " I would have to say we should follow in Spirit the word written through Moses. Does that possibly come off as two different things to you? Yes it may. Maybe it is something I do not articulate well. Maybe I am not supposed to. That is coming from my spirit. Does that make sense to you? 2631"
And not so correct again probably but Ill try, I will also try to make it short as I caught the insult.
The ceremonial laws of the "animal sacrifice", all blood laws, no longer in use as there is no more animal sacrifice and all the laws that are not physically "applicable" to our situation (I don't own oxen) can only be followed in the "Spiritual" sense as they are not physical to our situation as they were/are to theirs. So, I still cant put it into the correct words but I absolutely know I should not have even tried, and I am only doing so again now per your request to attend to my plank, so if I get it wrong again I will apologize now so I wont have to try for 3rd time. I know I didn't get it right but maybe like I said before I am not supposed to.

The Covenant changed as in we are no longer sentenced to death through the law, we are sentenced to life through Jesus. God knows we are sinners. We know we are sinners. But we don't have to stay that way. We don't have to be perfect or die, We only have to try. We choose who we will be when we see God again. He has gone more than 1/2 way. He has taken away the penalty. He has sent us a Comforter. He has written the way in our hearts and minds. He has told us we have already made it if we only have faith. WE better do something. That something may not apply towards the gifts, but it certainly applies towards the walk and the end product.

The kingdom is gonna have thrones, and priests that reign with Christ, there will be a temple and those in, those inside the wall, those out side the wall, there are going to be the least. ETERNITY is a long time to be the least. What do our righteous acts do? We know they don't count towards the gifts, so what do they count toward? I am stopping before get to wordy. Certainly hope this has cleared everything up for you. It has me. Thanks a lot. Hopefully got the rest from the wordy post.

Quick question... can you explain this


Then, can we agree that the "spirit of TRUTH", mistakenly referred to as the "Spirit of God", and/or "the gift of the Holy Spirit",

The mistakenly referred to. Isn't the spirit of God, the spirit of Truth?

Not looking to dispute, just trying to understand what you mean.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
Galatians 5:22‭-‬26 NASB

Those fruits seem to be at the core of what He meant by the 2 laws of love that sum up the whole law and the prophets.

On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Matthew 22:40 NASB

I think if we want to Honor God in all that we do and don't do, in our actions, thoughts, and words, we will want to obey those laws that He died to put in hearts.

I think it should break our hearts knowing we grieve and quench the spirit. Not saying here in this thread but when we do not walk in justice, nor love mercy, and negate to walk humbly with Him.

He is so patient and merciful.

Daniel 12 (KJV)
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and *knowledge shall be increased.

*strongs 1847-cunning. Strongs 3045 has a further rendering of knowledge. Much too long to hunt n peck out here. Reading this along with 1847, however gives one a somewhat more "sinister" sense of what is inferred in the word knowledge as used in this verse. I think the word GREED, for "this knowledge", could be used as well. Not to mention the cunning that is incorporated in its using against Christendom, in the furthering the "traditions of man."
The very fact we are grafted "wild olive trees?" Makes this so much harder in the detecting of, overcoming, and the "stablishing" the "law", that we as Christ Men are to do!

Concerning cotton polyester blends etc. etc.
Colossians 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
I think we can include cotton blends, in articles of clothing in this. can we not?

Concerning moral laws?
Romans 1 (NIV)
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Keeping in mind the meaning of the word knowledge, as used in Daniel 12:4?
Ecclesiastes 1
18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

It IS, a "lack of discernment" that breeds "confusion." That leads to a "breaking down" of the "government" on the shoulder of Jesus Christ. Or, that Jesus Christ "bares" on His shoulder/s. Of which, "limits" the "lateral movements" of GOD into and out of His Son. Just as it limits the lateral movements of GOD into and out of the "GIFT" of His Holy Spirit. And, likewise for the Son's lateral movements into and out of the Father, as well as into and out of the gift of the Holy Spirit. As well as the lateral movements of the gift of the Holy Spirit's lateral movements, into and out of the Son, as well, as the Father. It would seem this is done to deliberately cause confusion, and contention within, or even between believers.
And, as can be witnessed here in the BDF.
That contention between Saved believers, contending with those seeking inheritance. Which are viewed by the saved ones as a "works" salvation. But, it isn't! Works for inheriting the Kingdom of God YIELDS eternal life. Goes above and beyond "everlasting" life. For THIS "everlasting" SHALL end, at the 7th trump. Eternal life? NEVER ends!

all right, here is my reply.

1. gentiles were nor are now under the Law of Moses.


2. there are plenty instructional Scripture in the N. T. why are those not sufficient ?

3. Law/ Sabbath keeping have nothing to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

4. Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath, the double Sabbath conspiracy theory is a Judeaizer lie.