Once saved always saved? Or is salvation conditional on believing and following God's Word?

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fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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@Hemustincrease
3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us
to his own glory and excellence,
5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
> virtue + knowledge + self-control + steadfastness + godliness + brotherly affection + love [7 action words]
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
2Peter 1:
and here Peter is writing to the Spirit-filled church of the saints who have all been obedient to Acts 2:38
He is not writing to Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox nor any other flavours.
The faith pertains to life and the supplements pertain to godliness so that there is really no problem. The problem is you try to insert Acts 2:38 here which is to wrest the scriptures...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The faith pertains to life and the supplements pertain to godliness so that there is really no problem. The problem is you try to insert Acts 2:38 here which is to wrest the scriptures...
it is because he misinterprets acts 2, instead of trying to interpret acts 2 in a way which agrees with the rest of the NT
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We have many DESCRIPTIVE passages, like the ones in the OP. They describe what a born again child of God should do.

They are not PRESCRIPTIVE, meaning you MUST do X in order to be saved.
It absolutely doesn't mean we shouldn't do those descriptive passages. The Holy Spirit is IN us, and directing us to do those things, and if we don't, our Heavenly Father corrects us, like EVERY Good Good Father would.
Amen, To many want to mix justification (how to be saved) passages and sanctification (christian Growth) passages
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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So God promised conditional life not eternal? I am just asking my friend, because this is what it sounds like you are saying
i have actually heard some say this is like probation period before heaven. kerrigan skelly i think said it
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
i have actually heard some say this is like probation period before heaven. kerrigan skelly i think said it
I have heard this said alot to

The issue is if this is true, we can never “know we have eternal life” meaning john lied,
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Appreciated bro.

I've oft wrestled with the concept, because there is a false version of salvation that masquerades as truth...it's just hard to tell for certain people that aren't intentionally preaching it.

I have my own doubts, but this has helped me a bit as some ammo for my own inner dialogue :)

My question is not whether or not you can lose it, but if you even have it in the first place. Like "the form of godliness but denying the power thereof" scripture and what exactly that means. I believe that he is mighty to save yes, but I also believe that each person has their own unique standard to bear up under (cross to bear possibly?), with discipline and correction along the way as we are maturing (sanctification). So there is some type of inward change with consistent progression throughout our lives. If not, I would be seriously concerned about them.

I think each person's daily crucifixion of the flesh looks different and I'm not going to judge them unilaterally, just question them and their salvation. Privately. In my own mind. It does however raise questions in my prayer life that seemingly go unanswered.

Like knowing someone is living in sin and claims to follow Christ...I just wonder, is your pastor not teaching correctly or are you in willful rebellion and how is that even possible? Then consequently feeling guilty for not pointing it out.

A particular person came to mind, so I will think about how to broach the subject.

Some other questions I was pondering seemed to answer themselves so that's cool :)


So almost a pointless post except that where I am right now made a lot more sense typing it out so that's certainly something to praise about!

For me a lot of this gets confusing because one of my earliest memories was when I asked Jesus to come into my heart and to save me so I just don't have much else to compare it to.

Except that it has been a constant battle my whole life. Filled with tons of vain imagination that I didn't realize until much later were "unproductive" at the very best. At worst...harlotry. Certainly has been with lust...and certain other things that I won't mention at present, just that the enemy hasn't ever been far away for me and the personal nature of the attacks get confusing...

I'd certainly like to explain what my lifelong journey has been like but I can in no way do so. There are certain doubts that I have that I don't believe can be explained with fleshly limitations. Like we can't see in the perfect as we are imperfect. We are being perfected certainly...and I am constantly surprised at the process of sanctification. I rarely take a trip down memory lane intentionally but I can't even fathom half of the headspaces I've been in, certain sins are super far removed from me that it's almost like they didn't even happen. That wasn't me...but it was me? I am now a new me? Did that make me unsaved before? Am I even saved now? Is this what sanctification looks like? Months feel like years sometimes and I feel "old"...but young at the same time.

I think it's possible I go astray a lot...in my own thinking and he brings me back.

Or potentially I am deluded, was not saved to begin with, my whole life is a lie and I won't ever be...I rebuke thoughts like that.


At present I'm just resting in Phillipians 2:12 and that it's a process of understanding what it means personally. Like the work of the word...in my own personal life, in situations, at work. I read scripture a lot of places but mostly it's just for confirmation that I'm on the right track sometimes. Not in some other footrace on a different "way".

Other times it's like a banquet or a meager meal (if I'm lazy/tired).

I suppose I've expounded a good bit in other threads and will continue to do so. Thanks once again for putting it like that.

I often wonder if sometimes our disagreements would come out rather different in person when we actually met the person. I can feel an "echo" of them online but it's fainter and possibly that could be factored in some fashion.
The truth is clear on the issue.....A son by birth will always be a son by birth......after birth the struggle begins and our faithfulness or a lack thereof is applied to FELLOWSHIP and walking in the light as he is in the light.........JESUS said I WILL LOSE NOTHING.....if one is LOST after salvation then he did indeed LOSE something.....NO one will convince me of that drivel....ALSO.....IT IS all CHRIST or it is fraudulent.....THOSE which peddle some self assisted salvation based upon works or religious hoop jumping have flat missed the truth that it is ALL CHRIST.....

GOD foreknew who would believe and be saved
God CALLS them to salvation
GOD deals a measure of FAITH to them
GOD saves them
God justifies them
God SEALS them
God SANCTIFIES them forever <--HEBREWS

JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith in us and the CALL and GIFTS of GOD are irrevocable <---SALVATION IS A GIFT the bible states this CLEARLY and NOTE the bolded.

The simplicity found in CHRIST---->It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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The very fact of the struggle seems to me proof that you are saved Mii and that Holy Spirit is at work in you.

If it were not so, you wouldn’t care.

Negative thoughts are hard to deal with without replacing them with the truth of scripture. I would think that this is where you are right now in your walk. Search the scripture, ask for His help, to find the word of faith that counteracts the thoughts of negativity.

This is the battle we all go through. Renewing the mind.

Once you start, if you haven’t already that is, it becomes exciting. The scriptures are just that.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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i have actually heard some say this is like probation period before heaven. kerrigan skelly i think said it
Before God delivered me from works salvation I often listened to that false teacher try to manipulate the scriptures.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I have heard this said alot to

The issue is if this is true, we can never “know we have eternal life” meaning john lied,
Amen! 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. (y)

Roman Catholicism refers to this as the "sin of presumption." I even once heard a Roman Catholic priest say the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 is "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure." :eek:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen! 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. (y)

Roman Catholicism refers to this as the "sin of presumption." I even once heard a Roman Catholic priest say the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 is "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure." :eek:
So john said we can know. But actually meant we can not know for sure??

wow!! lol.. Where do these people come up with this stuff?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Amen! Works-salvationists often confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture and also "re-define" belief/faith to "include" works and the end result is salvation through faith PLUS WORKS. I've heard Roman Catholics teach salvation through faith "infused" with works and Campbellites teach salvation through faith "conjoined" with works. Such people desperately try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith (and seek salvation based on the merit of their works) but the shoe does not fit. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)
Yes!

They're "prescription" is to take 2 good works and call call God in the morning.

Problem is, God gives them the SAME answer every morning. " Those works are filthy rags, and horrible stench in my Nose, what else ya got for me?"
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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Before God delivered me from works salvation I often listened to that false teacher try to manipulate the scriptures.
me too thats how i heard of it. i was also delivered from it praise God we are on the same background story
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Before God delivered me from works salvation I often listened to that false teacher try to manipulate the scriptures.
Lord knows many of us were in that place sister!

That's why as frustrating as it is we have to try and be patient, at least at first, with these works guys. I only hope they will come to their senses BEFORE a serious, painful correction from God.

Or maybe we should just pray for that serious, painful correction instead. It would be faaar better for them!
 

OneOfHis

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Mar 24, 2019
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Lord knows many of us were in that place sister!

That's why as frustrating as it is we have to try and be patient, at least at first, with these works guys. I only hope they will come to their senses BEFORE a serious, painful correction from God.

Or maybe we should just pray for that serious, painful correction instead. It would be faaar better for them!

*cough* brother mcgee *cough*
😁

Amen brother.... God used many of His children to help correct me... some more soft... some more harsh... but all fighting for the truth...

even then it was impossible for them

I needed to be convinced by Gods word... I had many long nights where I set my understanding at Gods feet and just wanted to see what HE wanted me to see

I can admit where I am wrong but I need to be convinced... and I only trusted God more than my own understanding
 

OneOfHis

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Mar 24, 2019
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*cough* brother mcgee *cough*
😁

Amen brother.... God used many of His children to help correct me... some more soft... some more harsh... but all fighting for the truth...

even then it was impossible for them

I needed to be convinced by Gods word... I had many long nights where I set my understanding at Gods feet and just wanted to see what HE wanted me to see

I can admit where I am wrong but I need to be convinced... and I only trusted God more than my own understanding
(but without the constant reproof from brothers and sisters... I'd have kept on marching the wrong way without some other sort of divine correction)
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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*cough* brother mcgee *cough*
😁

Amen brother.... God used many of His children to help correct me... some more soft... some more harsh... but all fighting for the truth...

even then it was impossible for them

I needed to be convinced by Gods word... I had many long nights where I set my understanding at Gods feet and just wanted to see what HE wanted me to see

I can admit where I am wrong but I need to be convinced... and I only trusted God more than my own understanding
Ha! Sorry Dude! Confused you with someone else!
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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Interesting interaction between a believer in immortal rebirth and repentance, faith and walking

Thank you Mr. FHS.
I knew your bad intentions all along ...so do not believe for one Milli-second you have outsmarted me.
Lordship salvation is behaviour modification salvation and not the Gospel.
Salvation is a gift and the new birth/birthed from above is necessary.
You reveal you deceptive ways once again. This is why I choose my friends wisely.
I shared the 4 spiritual laws, a classic presentation of the gospel of Jesus and redemption.

The fruit of immortal rebirth is the gospel is now bad intentions, behaviour modification.

In a real sense this is the condemnation of all people who came to Christ in Billy Graham missions,
or any other preaching for repentance of sin, turning to God and walking in His ways through the cross.

Anyone who condemns this as bad intentions is truly lost.
Today is sad, because I did not expect this, but again if one goes to a church that teaches you are forgiven
redeemed and made whole without repentance and sorrow, and have no apparent things you need to change,
little wonder you end up in this strange faith world where nice people encounter God and it is all safe and
full of roses with no cost or difficulties.

What is worrying to a degree is the language sounds christian, but its reality is not.
What stops this kind of approach is persecution and hard times, because then life realities really come and
confront the "believer" with some difficult issues about their heart and their walk.
God bless you all.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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A good shepherd indeed may well seek to find his strayed and lost sheep … but not all sheep want to return to the flock.
OSAS confuses the scriptures about God's faithfulness and protection with the responsibilities of believers or disciples to
uphold our part - faithfulness > remaining steadfast and true.
Many do not do this and are lost back into the world and back to Satan.
Read the parable of the sower and the seed - only one in four seeds cast on the soil grows to produce grain.
Not all run to finish the race and to claim the prize.
I have read the parable of the sower. I can't say I have it all figured out. You have those who do believe for a little while but then tribulation or persecution comes on account of the word, they fall away.( see Mark 4:16-17) Perhaps the key word here is tribulation and persecution. These are things that test someone's faith. Some fall away in those times of persecution but others faith becomes even stronger. It is not a Christian's job to keep themselves saved. God gives his children grace in times of trouble and persecutions.

In Ephesians 5:25-27 we see the plan and purpose Christ had in mind:

" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Jesus fulfilled his mission in coming and paying for our sins on the cross and rising again the third day. He will also fulfill his purpose in presenting to himself his church as faultless and holy before him.