Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Whispered

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can i help you see?

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:26)
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
(Galatians 3:27)
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:28)
I think you posted to the wrong person there. Not one of those verses contradicts what I've always said from the time you addressed my remark concerning Galatians 3:28. You must then mean that post for someone else.
 

Whispered

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Hey W,

Read the article you shared. How can you go wrong in reading/Studying scripture! If you haven't heard of it there is a free Bible software you can download called esword. It is very VERY powerful for deep studies or just reading.

Bless YHWH! Know and keep

SG
Did you read the article?
I don't know how your remarks relate to it if you did so.


2 Heinous Lies Satan Spreads about the Bible
Joe McKeever




"What great nation is there that has statutes and judgements as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today?"(Deuteronomy 4:8)

A national news columnist–I forget his name–is from Okalona, Mississippi, just up the road from here. In a column some years back, he was telling of visiting his 90-year-old mother, a retired librarian. She had always been a voracious reader. “Son,” she told him, “I’ve just finished reading the most fascinating book.” As she showed it to him, he smiled.

“Mother,” said the columnist son, “I distinctly remember you telling me you had read that 20 years ago. In fact, you bought me a copy. Don’t you remember?”

“The way my memory is going,” she said, “honestly, I could just own one book.”

We smile at the idea of reading one book over and over again. Those of a certain age will understand.

And yet, focusing on one book is exactly what disciples of the Lord Jesus do. We read the Holy Bible every day and plan to do so for the rest of our days. We read it to know it, to know the Lord through reading it, and we read it to know how to serve Him.

One Sunday morning not long ago, while addressing a group of seniors at a breakfast I asked Pastor Dan Howard, “When did you begin preaching?” This beloved pastor of Philadelphia Mississippi’s First Baptist Church said, “In 1977.” I said, “What book did you preach out of?” He said, “The Bible.” I said, “And now, here we are 40 years later. So, what book are you preaching out of now?” “Same book,” he said, “The Bible.” I teased, “Man, you’re still in the same book! You haven’t progressed?”

We will never progress beyond this book. It contains the revelation of God for mankind.

There is no bottom to its depth.

We never exhaust its contents, never mine all its riches. It is inexhaustible.

Late one afternoon, I rested for a couple of hours in the home of friends in McComb, Mississippi before attending a church banquet where I was to speak. I noticed in the living room, shelves contained all the writings of Jan Karon, the novels of John Grisham and David Baldacci, and others. Looks like we read the same stuff, I thought. And another thought occurred…

The reason you won’t find those books in shelves at my house is after we read them, we’re through with them. We pass them on to family members or donate them to GoodWill. But one thing we never do is pull one out which we’ve read before to read again, just to see if we missed anything the first time through. And yet…

We do this with the holy Scriptures all the time. Every time we pass through a familiar chapter or well-known story, we find something new, something we had not seen before. It’s an amazing thing.

This is precisely what the Lord promised would happen. Matthew 13:52 contains the only mention of this in Scripture and it’s a keeper…

“Therefore, every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old.”

Imagine that. A homeowner who goes into his safe or a chest of valuables and counts out all the deeds, money, jewels, and other keepsakes he has owned through the years. But every time he does this, he finds new treasures. A pearl ring this time, a hundred dollar bill the next time, and so forth. He’d come often, wouldn’t he?

Jesus said a scribe–that is, someone considered an expert on the Scriptures–who gets saved now returns to the Scriptures that he loves and where he has found all these precious truths and insights. He finds them there, all the riches he has loved over the years. But lo and behold, every time he comes, he makes a new discovery. And so it is with opening the Word of the Lord.

There are so many reasons for God’s people studying and living in the Scriptures. Jesus called it our bread (Matthew 4:4). Job said it was more than his necessary food (Job 23:12). David called it a lamp unto his feet, a light unto his path (Psalm 119:105). Paul said it’s the source of faith (Romans 10:17).

Satan tries two primary ploys to keep us from the Word…

–To the believers, he says, “You already know this word. You don’t need to read it.” He’s a liar. You do not know the Word. You may know some about it, you might even be a preacher or professor and have made a study of the Bible your lifelong vocation. But you don’t know it.

–To everyone else, he says, “No one can understand it. It’s contradictory, too complex, too whatever.” He’s wrong. Even a child can glean a great deal from Scriptures. From a child, Timothy knew the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:15).

He is a liar and the father of lies, said the Lord Jesus who ought to know since He has known that unholy one from the beginning (see John 8:44).

I remember when I was 22 years old, out of college and married and working full time while trying to pastor Unity Baptist Church of Kimberly, Alabama. I had no training for this, and would be heading to seminary two years later. In the meantime, every week in my quest for a sermon, I would re-invent the wheel. The struggle to understand enough of the Word to preach a whole sermon was unrelenting and rigorous.

These days, some 56 years later, I look back to those days and smile. I love this Word and understand so much more of it than then. How I wish I could return and teach that young kid some of the riches the Lord has shown me in His Word. But that’s not how it works. Each of us has to do the hard work of learning to read the Bible, learning what it means, and digging out its riches. Only then–only when we do the work and keep at it–do we appreciate what God has done in giving us this precious and amazing Bible.

I’m so thankful. It has become a life goal for me to encourage God’s people to get serious about reading and studying and obeying the Word of God.

“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does them is like a wise man who builds his house on a rock…” (Matthew 7:24).

“If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them” (John 13:17).

“Why call ye me ‘Lord, Lord’ and do not the things I tell you?” (Luke 6:46).

If you call yourself a sincere disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no excuse for not becoming a devoted student of His Word.
 
May 1, 2019
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Did you read the article?
I don't know how your remarks relate to it if you did so.


2 Heinous Lies Satan Spreads about the Bible
Joe McKeever




"What great nation is there that has statutes and judgements as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today?"(Deuteronomy 4:8)

A national news columnist–I forget his name–is from Okalona, Mississippi, just up the road from here. In a column some years back, he was telling of visiting his 90-year-old mother, a retired librarian. She had always been a voracious reader. “Son,” she told him, “I’ve just finished reading the most fascinating book.” As she showed it to him, he smiled.

“Mother,” said the columnist son, “I distinctly remember you telling me you had read that 20 years ago. In fact, you bought me a copy. Don’t you remember?”

“The way my memory is going,” she said, “honestly, I could just own one book.”

We smile at the idea of reading one book over and over again. Those of a certain age will understand.

And yet, focusing on one book is exactly what disciples of the Lord Jesus do. We read the Holy Bible every day and plan to do so for the rest of our days. We read it to know it, to know the Lord through reading it, and we read it to know how to serve Him.

One Sunday morning not long ago, while addressing a group of seniors at a breakfast I asked Pastor Dan Howard, “When did you begin preaching?” This beloved pastor of Philadelphia Mississippi’s First Baptist Church said, “In 1977.” I said, “What book did you preach out of?” He said, “The Bible.” I said, “And now, here we are 40 years later. So, what book are you preaching out of now?” “Same book,” he said, “The Bible.” I teased, “Man, you’re still in the same book! You haven’t progressed?”

We will never progress beyond this book. It contains the revelation of God for mankind.

There is no bottom to its depth.

We never exhaust its contents, never mine all its riches. It is inexhaustible.

Late one afternoon, I rested for a couple of hours in the home of friends in McComb, Mississippi before attending a church banquet where I was to speak. I noticed in the living room, shelves contained all the writings of Jan Karon, the novels of John Grisham and David Baldacci, and others. Looks like we read the same stuff, I thought. And another thought occurred…

The reason you won’t find those books in shelves at my house is after we read them, we’re through with them. We pass them on to family members or donate them to GoodWill. But one thing we never do is pull one out which we’ve read before to read again, just to see if we missed anything the first time through. And yet…

We do this with the holy Scriptures all the time. Every time we pass through a familiar chapter or well-known story, we find something new, something we had not seen before. It’s an amazing thing.

This is precisely what the Lord promised would happen. Matthew 13:52 contains the only mention of this in Scripture and it’s a keeper…

“Therefore, every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old.”

Imagine that. A homeowner who goes into his safe or a chest of valuables and counts out all the deeds, money, jewels, and other keepsakes he has owned through the years. But every time he does this, he finds new treasures. A pearl ring this time, a hundred dollar bill the next time, and so forth. He’d come often, wouldn’t he?

Jesus said a scribe–that is, someone considered an expert on the Scriptures–who gets saved now returns to the Scriptures that he loves and where he has found all these precious truths and insights. He finds them there, all the riches he has loved over the years. But lo and behold, every time he comes, he makes a new discovery. And so it is with opening the Word of the Lord.

There are so many reasons for God’s people studying and living in the Scriptures. Jesus called it our bread (Matthew 4:4). Job said it was more than his necessary food (Job 23:12). David called it a lamp unto his feet, a light unto his path (Psalm 119:105). Paul said it’s the source of faith (Romans 10:17).

Satan tries two primary ploys to keep us from the Word…

–To the believers, he says, “You already know this word. You don’t need to read it.” He’s a liar. You do not know the Word. You may know some about it, you might even be a preacher or professor and have made a study of the Bible your lifelong vocation. But you don’t know it.

–To everyone else, he says, “No one can understand it. It’s contradictory, too complex, too whatever.” He’s wrong. Even a child can glean a great deal from Scriptures. From a child, Timothy knew the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:15).

He is a liar and the father of lies, said the Lord Jesus who ought to know since He has known that unholy one from the beginning (see John 8:44).

I remember when I was 22 years old, out of college and married and working full time while trying to pastor Unity Baptist Church of Kimberly, Alabama. I had no training for this, and would be heading to seminary two years later. In the meantime, every week in my quest for a sermon, I would re-invent the wheel. The struggle to understand enough of the Word to preach a whole sermon was unrelenting and rigorous.

These days, some 56 years later, I look back to those days and smile. I love this Word and understand so much more of it than then. How I wish I could return and teach that young kid some of the riches the Lord has shown me in His Word. But that’s not how it works. Each of us has to do the hard work of learning to read the Bible, learning what it means, and digging out its riches. Only then–only when we do the work and keep at it–do we appreciate what God has done in giving us this precious and amazing Bible.

I’m so thankful. It has become a life goal for me to encourage God’s people to get serious about reading and studying and obeying the Word of God.

“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does them is like a wise man who builds his house on a rock…” (Matthew 7:24).

“If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them” (John 13:17).

“Why call ye me ‘Lord, Lord’ and do not the things I tell you?” (Luke 6:46).

If you call yourself a sincere disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no excuse for not becoming a devoted student of His Word.

I will read the one you put in the post then.

This is the post I was sent to when I clicked the link in your post:

Link in your post
 

Whispered

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I will read the one you put in the post then.

This is the post I was sent to when I clicked the link in your post:

Link in your post
:) Yes, that is the same article I pasted here. I took the printer version at their site and copied that to make it easier to share here. Same article though.
 
May 1, 2019
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:) Yes, that is the same article I pasted here. I took the printer version at their site and copied that to make it easier to share here. Same article though.
Hey, When I read it again, the overall takeaway again was read and study Gods word. Did you get something else? Please share :)

SG
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Hey, When I read it again, the overall takeaway again was read and study Gods word. Did you get something else? Please share :)

SG
:) No, I got it the first time. This is why I wanted to pass it on to those for whom it may be as nourishment to their spirits.
I'm glad you got that takeaway this time. Did it help clear it up for you from your prior posting?
"Read the article you shared. How can you go wrong in reading/Studying scripture! "
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Numbers 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring
Numbers 15:40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
Numbers 15:41 I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.

The law of Moses was given to the Israelites who are under that law. (Malachi 4:4)

But the Law of Moses was only put in place "temporarily" expiring at John the Baptist, and had to be taken completely out for the New Covenant to come in. It was the shadow of what "was to come" and when Jesus arrived, it was rendered null and void for that purpose.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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...... Those who suggest Paul is less reliable than Matthew, Mark, Luke or John who quoted Jesus words are not understanding how the inspiration of the text works. They are all equal in authority and do not contradict
All of them are absolutely reliable, but there are differences. Matthew, Mark. Luke and John reported what the Lord Jesus said, to the Jews, before His ascension to Heaven, while Paul relayed Christ's message, to Christians, after the ascension.

For almost 30 years I learned the same thing you learned: Jesus and Paul preached the exact same thing. If there seems to be a conflict, the reader must resort to hermeneutics -- and sometimes to quantum physics -- to make Jesus and Paul match.

Jesus told the man cured of leprosy to offer sacrifices; He told His disciples to obey the scribes and the Pharisees; He told the young rich ruler to keep the commandments; He taught (through His personal example) observance of the Sabbath; He taught His disciples to sell their possessions and give alms; He said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter Heaven; etc.

What did Paul say about the above things? He said we are not under the Law, and regarding the rich here is what he said:

Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.
 
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  • what is each person's load?
    • carry each other's burdens
    • don't deceive yourself thinking you are what you're not
    • test yourself
    • don't compare yourself with others

  • what is each person's load?
    • each other's load
      • without deception
      • tested not against others

  • what is ((my)) burden?
    • ((your)) burden


Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two
(Matthew 5:41)


  • how far is one mile?
    • two miles
God has all the answers to all your questions bro.
Remember that knowledge puffs up but love builds up and without love, we are nothing.(1 Corinthians 8:1, 13:1-3)

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

Walk the WAY of the TRUTH towards eternal LIFE in Jesus Christ our Lord...WALK IN LOVE (2 John 1:6) Do not remove the LIFE of Jesus from the Gospel as the others do.

Love the Truth. Love is the Truth.

Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

Walk in Love and God bless.
 

TheLearner

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I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?
“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18).

Those things were completed with his death, resurrection and ascension. As I recall the Laws of Moses were nailed to the cross. So, there is no problem with taking Paul's word for it.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
All of them are absolutely reliable, but there are differences. Matthew, Mark. Luke and John reported what the Lord Jesus said, to the Jews, before His ascension to Heaven, while Paul relayed Christ's message, to Christians, after the ascension.

For almost 30 years I learned the same thing you learned: Jesus and Paul preached the exact same thing. If there seems to be a conflict, the reader must resort to hermeneutics -- and sometimes to quantum physics -- to make Jesus and Paul match.

Jesus told the man cured of leprosy to offer sacrifices; He told His disciples to obey the scribes and the Pharisees; He told the young rich ruler to keep the commandments; He taught (through His personal example) observance of the Sabbath; He taught His disciples to sell their possessions and give alms; He said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter Heaven; etc.

What did Paul say about the above things? He said we are not under the Law, and regarding the rich here is what he said:

Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.
The old testament was in effect while Jesus taught. The new testament took effect after the death of the testator. Hebrews explains all this. After Jesus sacrifice on the cross the veil was rent and not before. It is not a contradiction it is a progressive revelation.
 

Grandpa

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I don't refer to the ten commands as those of Moses. They were given to Moses by the Father so for me they are God's law. Which is why I asked for clarification as to what you meant when you referred to the Law. Thanks for doing that. :)
I don't think the 10 commandments are Gods Law.

They are commands to be perfect as God is Perfect. I think they are given to people who haven't accepted Grace. And to people who outright reject Grace.

I think Gods ACTUAL law is Love, Peace, Joy, Patience, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith. All the traits that actually FULFILL the 10 commandments and are the ACTUAL work of God Himself.
 

Whispered

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I don't think the 10 commandments are Gods Law.

They are commands to be perfect as God is Perfect. I think they are given to people who haven't accepted Grace. And to people who outright reject Grace.

I think Gods ACTUAL law is Love, Peace, Joy, Patience, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith. All the traits that actually FULFILL the 10 commandments and are the ACTUAL work of God Himself.
Interesting take on that. What of Exodus 31 and verse 18? Where we are told the finger of God wrote the ten commandments on those two tablets of stone.
Don't you think the ten commands embody the law of love of God and others?
 

Grandpa

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Thank you for sharing your view @Grandpa

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13

Do you (not refering to you)no longer let us do anything for our Father in heaven as His faithful servants by saying that those who obey the law/commandments of God are cursed, condemned, foolish works salvationist? What then shall the faithful servants of God obey if not the law or His commandments? How can they walk like Jesus did when He walked in Love on this earth? (2 John 1:6,Hebrews 5:7-9))

The law of Moses was given to the Israelites who are under that law. (Malachi 4:4)

...All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. Romans 2:1-16

Do you follow or obey your parents? Do you follow or obey the laws of the land (US Laws)?

Why not follow or obey your Father in heaven?

Why not follow or obey God's law and commandments?

Walk in Love (2 John 1:6)
I do follow Gods Law but they aren't the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments are for people who REJECT Grace.
The 10 commandments are for carnal people to work at in their flesh.
The 10 commandments are for people who DON'T have faith in Christ, yet...


The Holy Spirit is for people who accept His Grace. And the fruit of the Spirit is Gods Law.

There is only ONE WAY to follow Gods Law and it isn't by work at the 10 commandments. It is by coming to Christ and receiving Blessing, Provision, Righteousness, Wisdom and Rest.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Interesting take on that. What of Exodus 31 and verse 18? Where we are told the finger of God wrote the ten commandments on those two tablets of stone.
Don't you think the ten commands embody the law of love of God and others?
No. I think they COMMAND to work the Work only God can do.

Which is the whole point of giving someone who REJECTS Grace the 10 commandments.

Once they find out only GOD can do them then they have no choice but to accept His Grace.

Or stubbornly continue rejecting Grace and working at commandments.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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The old testament was in effect while Jesus taught. The new testament took effect after the death of the testator. Hebrews explains all this. After Jesus sacrifice on the cross the veil was rent and not before. It is not a contradiction it is a progressive revelation.
Correct! The Old Covenant was in force during Jesus' earthly ministry and basically He expounded the Law of Moses to the Jews.

Right! There are no contradictions. As I said, there are only differences.

The point of my thread is to discuss who should we follow: The earthly Jesus or the risen Christ?

In my opinion we must follow the risen Christ (Paul's teachings).
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18).

Those things were completed with his death, resurrection and ascension. As I recall the Laws of Moses were nailed to the cross. So, there is no problem with taking Paul's word for it.
I agree!
 
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I do follow Gods Law but they aren't the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments are for people who REJECT Grace.
The 10 commandments are for carnal people to work at in their flesh.
The 10 commandments are for people who DON'T have faith in Christ, yet...


The Holy Spirit is for people who accept His Grace. And the fruit of the Spirit is Gods Law.

There is only ONE WAY to follow Gods Law and it isn't by work at the 10 commandments. It is by coming to Christ and receiving Blessing, Provision, Righteousness, Wisdom and Rest.
So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-21
 

Whispered

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No. I think they COMMAND to work the Work only God can do.

Which is the whole point of giving someone who REJECTS Grace the 10 commandments.

Once they find out only GOD can do them then they have no choice but to accept His Grace.

Or stubbornly continue rejecting Grace and working at commandments.
You didn't answer about Exodus 31:18

I wish you every peace in living as you see it.