Critical Race Theory

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#21
On barack obama...reading his memoirs etc, Its dangerous to assume he was elected just cos of his race. Actually his mother was white and his dad was kenyan, so do people just assume that white people voted and kenyans voted just cos he was related to them? Actually when he went on his campaigns what he did mostly was LISTEN to people. He had people voting for him (from all different ethnicities) cos he actually listened to their needs and was prepared to do something about it.

Whether he was successful or not is up to you to decide, but certainly many people look past race and saw a man prepared to do something about many of the issues facing their nation. Same with the current president.
I do not know what the OP you was responding to meant by race but literally by percentage Obama won due to being able to rally the minority groups that usually by large percentages do not vote. They was excited to have a first black President. When asked why they voted most was young and had no idea what he stood for. This was factual to say to a degree.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#22
Then you see my reasoning that if "basically not that you lose credibility but that people dont see you as a credible unless you experienced it" if I do not lose credibility off of experience but yet people judge credibility off of experience then this is self contradicting.

Abraham Lincoln, a white man, powerful, rich, and never was a slave, advocated against slavery and ended up legally freeing the slaves for all states. Was his thoughts or experience less credible? Or do we judge off what he says as credible? Was what he said factual, morally right, or correspond to reality, is what the individual said line up to a Biblical worldview?
He may have ended up freeing slaves legally but he couldnt change peoples hearts. I think he could only do so much. And it took years before things really changed. I dont really know much about lincoln whether he owned slaves or not. But yes he wanted to do the right thing, but in peoples eyes who experienced the slavery first hand they needed to be able to see where he was coming from. Thats why Rosa Parks became such an important figure in the civil rights movement. Many others before her might have exaperienced the same kind of discrimination but it was her stand that got everyones attention.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#23
And then it was Martin Luther King Jr. It could have been anyone else but for some reason he had the credibility.

Do you know anything about street cred? Well its a thing that people have or they dont. Kind of like the x factor in some ways. You cant fake it. You have to be real.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#24
According to how you define slave. Physically or spiritually. Physically by another human being, no I haven't.
Modern day slavery is still slavery but just in different forms.
Have you ever worked for someone who abused you? You had a legal contract with them that meant you starved and become homeless if you quit. Or were married to someone who forced you to obey them, many women have been slaves in that manner.
Some people are in debt with huge mortgages it will take a lifetime to pay. Mortgage literally means you pay it off when you die. that is actually is a form of slavery.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
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#25
He may have ended up freeing slaves legally but he couldnt change peoples hearts. I think he could only do so much. And it took years before things really changed. I dont really know much about lincoln whether he owned slaves or not. But yes he wanted to do the right thing, but in peoples eyes who experienced the slavery first hand they needed to be able to see where he was coming from. Thats why Rosa Parks became such an important figure in the civil rights movement. Many others before her might have exaperienced the same kind of discrimination but it was her stand that got everyones attention.
Not the point. Was Lincoln still right or wrong based on experience. Doesn't matter what others think from a logical standpoint. He regardless of skin color or background was still either right or wrong.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
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#26
Modern day slavery is still slavery but just in different forms.
Have you ever worked for someone who abused you? You had a legal contract with them that meant you starved and become homeless if you quit. Or were married to someone who forced you to obey them, many women have been slaves in that manner.
Some people are in debt with huge mortgages it will take a lifetime to pay. Mortgage literally means you pay it off when you die. that is actually is a form of slavery.
Dont have to be to know it is wrong and speak against it. The only thing that should matter is if what is spoken is true or false, good or bad. Everything else like experience can help with influence but it still doesn't negate from the fact if what is spoken is true or false.

We repeat many things from scripture that we may not have experienced or seen yet but that still doesn't mean what we said shouldn't carry any weight.

We repeat scientific evidence but we are not scientists. Does that mean what we said should be ignored? Maybe but maybe not. If it's true and lines up with scientific evidence then what I said is still credible regardless if feelings or personal experience is attached.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
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#27
And then it was Martin Luther King Jr. It could have been anyone else but for some reason he had the credibility.

Do you know anything about street cred? Well its a thing that people have or they dont. Kind of like the x factor in some ways. You cant fake it. You have to be real.
Basically I do not need the critical race theory if I have the Biblical worldview. This was the point I was trying to show that if we follow a Biblical worldview then the church doesn't have to adopt other worldviews into the church.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#28
Basically I do not need the critical race theory if I have the Biblical worldview. This was the point I was trying to show that if we follow a Biblical worldview then the church doesn't have to adopt other worldviews into the church.
Oh ok you lost me I dont even know what you trying to say. You cant assume that only one kind of race are christians...people of every tribe and tongue believe in Jesus and they come from all corners of the earth now.

Its only in the 20/40 window that people still trying to reach....it may have changed now but thats what missionairies were saying for a while. This before advent of global communications.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#29
I do find when I speak to christians in america they still have american worldviews and if i speak to brits they have british worldviews. They dont really change their worldviews. Also many dont even try and understand anyone elses. But their america ones they just assume they are everyone elses when they arent and that they are totally biblical and right when actually they arent on closer inspection. Also there are many many different views within america. Its just the majority viewpoint most people hear about in the news.

If you happen to be minority of course your minority view wont be heard as much. Also theres language barriers. ONe thing that struck me is how some professed christians are REALLY AGainst speaking in unknown tongues, a gift God has given.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
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#30
Oh ok you lost me I dont even know what you trying to say. You cant assume that only one kind of race are christians...people of every tribe and tongue believe in Jesus and they come from all corners of the earth now.

Its only in the 20/40 window that people still trying to reach....it may have changed now but thats what missionairies were saying for a while. This before advent of global communications.
I do find when I speak to christians in america they still have american worldviews and if i speak to brits they have british worldviews. They dont really change their worldviews. Also many dont even try and understand anyone elses. But their america ones they just assume they are everyone elses when they arent and that they are totally biblical and right when actually they arent on closer inspection. Also there are many many different views within america. Its just the majority viewpoint most people hear about in the news.

If you happen to be minority of course your minority view wont be heard as much. Also theres language barriers. ONe thing that struck me is how some professed christians are REALLY AGainst speaking in unknown tongues, a gift God has given.
I was explaining why critical race theory is dangerous to adopt and other racial issues that are used but are just as flawed.

"You cant assume that only one kind of race are christians...people of every tribe and tongue believe in Jesus and they come from all corners of the earth now."

I never assumed anything. My OP was posted on a Christian chat and directed at Christian's and the church.

"I do find when I speak to christians in america they still have american worldviews and if i speak to brits they have british worldviews. They dont really change their worldviews. Also many dont even try and understand anyone elses. But their america ones they just assume they are everyone elses when they arent and that they are totally biblical and right when actually they arent on closer inspection. Also there are many many different views within america. Its just the majority viewpoint most people hear about in the news."

American worldview is kinda broad but I understand what your saying and completely agree. In fact I been advocating this the last few weeks about how we all act like we know 100% but yet we have atleast 7 mainline denominations and a history filled with heroes of the faith that didn't completely agree on all subjects in theology. To me though a Basic Biblical Worldview should be easily universal and understood. This is the basic understanding when you read the Bible without human doctrines. This is the simple message that infants in faith can understand. We should unite on that and yes we can debate and discuss theology but only in civil way as to try and grow each other in understanding.

Anything outside the core simple message should be spoke out against because of its seriously unstable and dangerous teachings when you leave the core message.

"If you happen to be minority of course your minority view wont be heard as much. Also theres language barriers. ONe thing that struck me is how some professed christians are REALLY AGainst speaking in unknown tongues, a gift God has given."

Do you believe they are not Christians for disagreeing?

I believe they are wrong but I also know of scripture that says if spoken outloud they need a interpreter so the church can learn. If a interpreter isnt there then they should sit and praise God amongst their self because it is only they who understands.

Look at all the disagreements on this site and everyone claims to be Christian. Either all are wrong, 1 is right, or we all have beliefs that are wrong and right.

So much disagreement. What do we do as Christians? This was my thoughts running through my previous thread called Thank God for Denominations.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#31
I do find when I speak to christians in america they still have american worldviews and if i speak to brits they have british worldviews. They dont really change their worldviews. Also many dont even try and understand anyone elses. But their america ones they just assume they are everyone elses when they arent and that they are totally biblical and right when actually they arent on closer inspection. Also there are many many different views within america. Its just the majority viewpoint most people hear about in the news.

If you happen to be minority of course your minority view wont be heard as much. Also theres language barriers. ONe thing that struck me is how some professed christians are REALLY AGainst speaking in unknown tongues, a gift God has given.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/thank-god-for-denominations.186930
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#32
I do find when I speak to christians in america they still have american worldviews and if i speak to brits they have british worldviews. They dont really change their worldviews. Also many dont even try and understand anyone elses. But their america ones they just assume they are everyone elses when they arent and that they are totally biblical and right when actually they arent on closer inspection. Also there are many many different views within america. Its just the majority viewpoint most people hear about in the news.

If you happen to be minority of course your minority view wont be heard as much. Also theres language barriers. ONe thing that struck me is how some professed christians are REALLY AGainst speaking in unknown tongues, a gift God has given.

Please do me a favor, do not believe anything you hear about the US in the MSM. They are terribly slanted and biased.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#33
He may have ended up freeing slaves legally but he couldnt change peoples hearts. I think he could only do so much. And it took years before things really changed. I dont really know much about lincoln whether he owned slaves or not. But yes he wanted to do the right thing, but in peoples eyes who experienced the slavery first hand they needed to be able to see where he was coming from. Thats why Rosa Parks became such an important figure in the civil rights movement. Many others before her might have exaperienced the same kind of discrimination but it was her stand that got everyones attention.

Did you know that Rosa Parks wasn't the first person to refuse to stand up on the bus? Interesting story.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#34
lets get REAL, we are ALL, each and everyone of us are 'racist',
even if we don't know what it really means...

Sorry, I disagree with that POV totally. I do not believe we are all racist.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#35
Sorry, I disagree with that POV totally. I do not believe we are all racist.
Agreed...

"Racist" used to mean "holds a prejudicial negative view towards people of other, or specific other, ethnicities". Now it seems to mean, "Notes the ethnicity of another person in any way, shape, or form, even if that person has just acknowledged it". :|

I prefer the old definition. I believe that it is inconsistent with a claim to Christian faith to hold a prejudicial view of others based on their ethnicity. We may recognize that we have such a view, but IMHO should work to overcome it.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
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#36
lets get REAL, we are ALL, each and everyone of us are 'racist',
even if we don't know what it really means...
That is true if we are in the flesh and do not have the Spirit for it cannot be avoided for the flesh wants to exalt itself above other people for that is the way the world operates which we can see plainly.

And we are all in the flesh until we come to God.

Even if it is not in a big way concerning being racist but in little ways it is still racist, and how can it be avoided if we are in the flesh and without the Spirit for we will think that our race is the best.

People find every way they can to exalt themselves above other people and race and nation are the biggest ones.

It cannot be avoided if in the world for people will exalt themselves like they do in every situation.

The world fights over everything they can to prove that they are better, and above each other, and now it is time for the men and women to fight.

It was inevitable, and also children and parents for it was going to happen eventually.

And concerning women's lib, and feminism, that say they want equal rights and to be equal to men it is not true for they want to above the men.

For that is not how the world operates by people wanting to be equal with each other but they want to be above each other.

Do businesses want to be equal, do pro sports teams want to be equal, do people that heap money to themselves want to be equal.

They do not want to be equal but they want to be above.

The women are out there doing what they men are doing, and going against the men as men go against men in all facets of society.

And in relationships they are trying to control like the men like to control.

But it is funny they will talk about men and the way they act and they act the same way for they have the liberty to do that so they will take it as all people will take it if given the opportunity.

They talk about the men and then they act the same way.

In the world they will be racist for that is the way of the world, and the way of the flesh.

How can they avoid it for no person can love perfectly without the Spirit.

In the world why wouldn't they think their race is better if they think their nation is better and they are better in other situations.

And concerning African Americans it is funny how they can talk about the white people but their people act the same way.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and what makes you to differ from another, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and God is no respecter of persons.

God said they accuse and excuse each other for they will point their finger and accuse all the while their people act the same way and act as if they have an excuse.

The truth is all nations, and ethnic groups push for power, but if they do not have the power they cry oppression, and they are cruel, but if they had the power they would push it too.

And white guilt does not apply for nobody is responsible or guilty for someone else's sin for that is on them.

It does not matter if your dad is Hitler for if you do not go along with him you are not guilty.

And if one African American shoots a white person or does a white person wrong then they are all guilty if that applies.

And white privilege does not apply for African Americans will give African Americans privilege, and the Latinos the Latinos, and the Asians the Asians.

And African Americans can be millionaires, billionaires, house owners, land owners, business owners, pro sports, movie and television stars, doctors, judges, lawyers, good jobs, policemen, military, and freedom to move about the country.

So what oppression are they talking about.

That is the way of the world that people are racist so why cry about it for that is the way it goes, and their people are also racist for they are of the world so it is funny how they can talk about the white people.

But leave the oppression talk out of it for it is not true for how come I am not a millionaire, or have a high position in society like some African Americans, so am I oppressed too.

African Americans go against Latinos, Asians, and other ethnic groups dogging them out.

But what did they do to them, and it does not matter if slavery never happened they would still be prejudice.

The truth of the matter is they do not like that they do not have the power for if they did they would push it too for look in the neighborhoods as they push for power for that is the way of the world.

Everybody acts the same but they talk of other people while their own people act the same and want power and control.

Anybody that says oh those black people, and oh those white people are surely racist, for how can they blame them all for what a few do.

Is Africa without any fights or wars, of course not.

Everybody acts the same and exalts themselves while talking about other people who do the same.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

They accuse but then their people act the same way.

For all nations, and ethnic groups push for power, but when they do not have the power they accuse all the while their own people do the same and want the same.

But it does not take away the injustices being done for it is wrong, but people need to stop acting as if their people are somehow not like that.

Oh those white people, oh those black people.

Strange.

Oh there goes those black people stealing again as if a person of another ethnic group never did it.

Oh those Jews are money hungry people as if other ethnic groups are not the same.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#37
That is true if we are in the flesh and do not have the Spirit for it cannot be avoided for the flesh wants to exalt itself above other people for that is the way the world operates which we can see plainly.

And we are all in the flesh until we come to God.

Even if it is not in a big way concerning being racist but in little ways it is still racist, and how can it be avoided if we are in the flesh and without the Spirit for we will think that our race is the best.

People find every way they can to exalt themselves above other people and race and nation are the biggest ones.

It cannot be avoided if in the world for people will exalt themselves like they do in every situation.

The world fights over everything they can to prove that they are better, and above each other, and now it is time for the men and women to fight.

It was inevitable, and also children and parents for it was going to happen eventually.

And concerning women's lib, and feminism, that say they want equal rights and to be equal to men it is not true for they want to above the men.

For that is not how the world operates by people wanting to be equal with each other but they want to be above each other.

Do businesses want to be equal, do pro sports teams want to be equal, do people that heap money to themselves want to be equal.

They do not want to be equal but they want to be above.

The women are out there doing what they men are doing, and going against the men as men go against men in all facets of society.

And in relationships they are trying to control like the men like to control.

But it is funny they will talk about men and the way they act and they act the same way for they have the liberty to do that so they will take it as all people will take it if given the opportunity.

They talk about the men and then they act the same way.

In the world they will be racist for that is the way of the world, and the way of the flesh.

How can they avoid it for no person can love perfectly without the Spirit.

In the world why wouldn't they think their race is better if they think their nation is better and they are better in other situations.

And concerning African Americans it is funny how they can talk about the white people but their people act the same way.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and what makes you to differ from another, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and God is no respecter of persons.

God said they accuse and excuse each other for they will point their finger and accuse all the while their people act the same way and act as if they have an excuse.

The truth is all nations, and ethnic groups push for power, but if they do not have the power they cry oppression, and they are cruel, but if they had the power they would push it too.

And white guilt does not apply for nobody is responsible or guilty for someone else's sin for that is on them.

It does not matter if your dad is Hitler for if you do not go along with him you are not guilty.

And if one African American shoots a white person or does a white person wrong then they are all guilty if that applies.

And white privilege does not apply for African Americans will give African Americans privilege, and the Latinos the Latinos, and the Asians the Asians.

And African Americans can be millionaires, billionaires, house owners, land owners, business owners, pro sports, movie and television stars, doctors, judges, lawyers, good jobs, policemen, military, and freedom to move about the country.

So what oppression are they talking about.

That is the way of the world that people are racist so why cry about it for that is the way it goes, and their people are also racist for they are of the world so it is funny how they can talk about the white people.

But leave the oppression talk out of it for it is not true for how come I am not a millionaire, or have a high position in society like some African Americans, so am I oppressed too.

African Americans go against Latinos, Asians, and other ethnic groups dogging them out.

But what did they do to them, and it does not matter if slavery never happened they would still be prejudice.

The truth of the matter is they do not like that they do not have the power for if they did they would push it too for look in the neighborhoods as they push for power for that is the way of the world.

Everybody acts the same but they talk of other people while their own people act the same and want power and control.

Anybody that says oh those black people, and oh those white people are surely racist, for how can they blame them all for what a few do.

Is Africa without any fights or wars, of course not.

Everybody acts the same and exalts themselves while talking about other people who do the same.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

They accuse but then their people act the same way.

For all nations, and ethnic groups push for power, but when they do not have the power they accuse all the while their own people do the same and want the same.

But it does not take away the injustices being done for it is wrong, but people need to stop acting as if their people are somehow not like that.

Oh those white people, oh those black people.

Strange.

Oh there goes those black people stealing again as if a person of another ethnic group never did it.

Oh those Jews are money hungry people as if other ethnic groups are not the same.
We all may be fallen but we all are not racist just like not all of us are murderers. Your actions dictate what or who you are. Selfishness is the first natural response and if not contained it spawns all other sins. If we wasn't to respond to God's natural revelation through moral law or the written law of God's Word then we are subject to the world and its teachings and anything absent of God is evil.

It is a choice that if selfishness is allowed to incubate then spawns out hate and pride.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#38
Agreed...

"Racist" used to mean "holds a prejudicial negative view towards people of other, or specific other, ethnicities". Now it seems to mean, "Notes the ethnicity of another person in any way, shape, or form, even if that person has just acknowledged it". :|

I prefer the old definition. I believe that it is inconsistent with a claim to Christian faith to hold a prejudicial view of others based on their ethnicity. We may recognize that we have such a view, but IMHO should work to overcome it.
New definitions are usually terribly off as our society moves further away from wisdom, understanding and logic. The progressives have a new dictionary. This is why we literally have to define every thought nowadays because before we get to the main disagreement we may unfortunately be disagreeing over meaning of the word also. Often times I have to explain why one definition is more logical, reasonable, and best fits reality.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,173
113
#39
People seem to judge on outward appearances but God looks on the heart. I think thats what it comes down to.

Not many of us humans are blessed with Xray vision, but when we become christian, those who were blind start to see.

You start to see a child, as a child rather than someone whos black, white, yellow whatever. A child who simply wants to be loved and belong to someone.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,173
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#40
Its interesting that Moses got adopted by the pharoahs daughter, and wasnt judged for being a hebrew baby. He then grew up egyptian. Now the two races might have looked quite similar but there are obviously some outward features that are unique to hebrews that give them a distinctive look.

And you all have them. For me, its eyelids (or lack of!), for you it might be the shape of your nose, the colour or curl of your hair, your skin tone, your bone mass, your eye colour. GOd made us all different shapes and sizes. That people want to group and sort themselves into similar is only natural. Whats when it becomes wrong is when one group insists they are superior than the other group. Or excludes or bullies another, based on appearance.