Was Lot a carnal christian or unbeliever

I believe you did say in your post #35 that a believer can not be carnally minded. If I am wrong, please correct me?

I have no desire to get into a calvinist debate

I said a believer can be in a place in their life they are not carnal, ie, they can (are able) to not be carnal,

You misunderstood me

Ahem may I step in here, SIR SIR!

On behalf of the calvinist club, mr ForestGreenCook(ed) does NOT represent reformed theology.

He has some weird teaching where even idolaters who believe in happy hunting grounds in the afterlife are saved. Makes a big deal out of deliverance here on the earth compared to eternal deliverance. Hardshell baptists is what they call them. FEW and FAR between and for a good reason!

Ahem may I step in here, SIR SIR!

On behalf of the calvinist club, mr ForestGreenCook(ed) does NOT represent reformed theology.

He has some weird teaching where even idolaters who believe in happy hunting grounds in the afterlife are saved. Makes a big deal out of deliverance here on the earth compared to eternal deliverance. Hardshell baptists is what they call them. FEW and FAR between and for a good reason!

You did not answer the question.

But by this answer i assume you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?

I really do not get the whole "carnal Christian" thing. Jesus says you are with Him or against Him, He never gave a third option. I think this term "carnal Christian" is really just trying to soften up a term for a false convert really. To give one who doesn't know Him a deceptive peace that can never last. I say this as a former false convert, I liked the idea of Jesus, I repeated the prayer and was even dunked under water, but did not know Him. I know I probably sound judgemental, or maybe even arrogant, but it terrifies me to think how many are just like me sitting in church, they think they are saved but do not know Him. Once you KNOW Him, once you are in Him you are changed forever, not just for a week or two, forever. You can KNOW God then kind of "unknow" Him. That's what I must testify as truth because I know firsthand that we can think we're saved and not be. I just want to warn others for their sakes and even more for His glory. We serve a real life God that changes us in real life and walks with us, oh I praise our Lord!!!

First and foremost I am not really in the habbit of declaring who is saved and who is not. Not my purpose. If their spirit hasn't been supernaturally resurrected by grace, through faith in Jesus the Christ then they are not a Christian. If you haven't been born again and call yourself Christian then yes you are a false convert. Really, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", are you asking if I think everybody that calls themself Christian is a Christian just because they say they are, then no I don't. I tend to believe Jesus before anybody else and Jesus says
“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, tI do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’

And

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

and then here Jesus clearly tells us we will know the tree by the fruit,

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

I believe this all strongly supports the agreed on fact that when you are born again into Christ then you are a changed being, and you cannot be a good tree producing bad fruit, co if you are still carnel just like you were before Jesus then you may want to seriously reevaluate your salvation. I am NOT saying that everyone changes in the same ways, or same timeframes, and God works in each one of us custom and I can't sit here and say a Christian has to be a, b, and c and follow this set of things, but what I can say is that Jesus changes you and if there is no change, it's my strong opinion there is no real Jesus or conversion, clear enough? I've talked to you enough you should know what I believe, are you just trying to be argumentative or something? What about you, do you think everyone is saved who merely says "I want Jesus in my heart", just because the music made them feel good one time when they were 8 at a camp? Then never thinking about it again? Does the Jesus you know have the power that knocks mans socks off like mine does, the Jesus I serve changes 30 year long heroin addicts overnight, the Jesus I serves destroys all deception and changes the hearts of me, so when you come with these questions as if you have no clue what I believe I have to conclude 2 things, first you seem to have a weak Jesus that just saves you to leave you in your sin, and I say that because of your constant and frantic defence of sinning Christian that have no change. Anytime this subject pops up you sweep in to affirm the weakness of God by proclaiming how God saves people to keep them in their sin, and how the power of God to NOT change is great.

I doubt you even realize you come off this way, but you do. You preach a weak Jesus that saves you and maybe changes you, but maybe not. That's not the Jesus that saved me brother. See unlike you I listen when we've talked in the past so I know where you're coming from. You came from a legalistic background that heaped burden on you until the day Jesus freed you, and praise His name for that. It CHANGED you, and you now walk with Him, this is truth, this is how it works, and if your tree is still producing bad fruit then guess what? It's still a bad tree.

Now to finally answer you main question, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", yes sadly I absolutely do, and I love them enough to bring up the things I wish people would have addressed when I was still in deception thinking just like you, "it's all good everyone is saved man". I think you could get a bit bolder with the truth, your softness in this area could send people to hell, comfortably deceived.

Please by all mean point out where I'm straying from Gods word here. I don't want to be deceived either, and also act like we've had a conversation before. I've told you what I believe, I think you just like teaching and "being right."

Think I'll throw a curveball out there.

Lot was simile of the pre trib rapture. Just like Enoch. Enoch was an uncarnal Christian though!LOl

Judgement COULD NOT begin UNTIL Lot was removed from those who would receive condemnation/destruction.

I believe our carnality, our fleshly condition, points to why we need Him within and that hopefully as a true believer, sanctification leads us to more of Him and less of flesh. Will we ever completely be beyond our limit of physicality. I do not think it possible. In Him, however, all things are possible, so we have hope....😀🙏❤

Lot did not have the HS to help sanctify Him away from his carnality. He had Abraham, though. He was blessed. His wife not so much.

The post following yours shows (i believe) he was a believer, 2 peter 2, which was a verse i wanted someone to share, by the fact his desires caused him distress

If you look at his life, i would not say he was very righteous in his deeds would you agree?

Nobody is entirely righteous in conduct. Still Job is said to be righteous in Scripture even though he did not always do what was right.

Ah the wife and children, another aspect of Lot and his life, did Lot fail them?

I guess that I would say she failed herself, but perhaps as the leader he could've, should've, been more clear in insisting she NOT look back. Eve was guilty of eating from the forbidden tree, and held responsible. One could accuse adam for not being clear enough, for not being a good leader, but as far as her actions go, all of women kind are made heirs of her responsibility.

He does use her, Lot"s wife, to remind us not to look back. Maybe also demonstrating the importance of listening to her husband when He is following God. He tells us to remember her. In essence her memory is seasoned with useful and persevering potency.

I'll let Paul explain it. Before we are born again, we have a single personality, and that is carnal, but when we are born again and God has given us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we then have a dual personality because we still carry the baggage of our carnal nature as Paul explains in Romans 7:14-25.

You failed to give a reference scripture for your disagreement. You can never understand THE GRACE OF GOD until you understand THE DEPRAVITY OF MAN. Paul says in Romans 7:25 that he still, with his fleshly nature, serves the law of sin. We are no better than Paul. If we never serve the law of sin by our fleshly nature, we would never have a reason to repent.

Nobody is entirely righteous in conduct. Still Job is said to be righteous in Scripture even though he did not always do what was right.

I think it goes deeper than this, what did lot teach his family about god? Not sure he was a very good representative, look at what his daughters did when they went to mountains, and the result of their sin.