not of works, but created in Christ unto good works

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Are you saying the first man was disobedient because he wasn’t GODs child?If that’s what you are saying then you are missing the point.The point Is Adam had a choice and he CHOSE,to listen to his own desire.
Yes, Adam had a choice.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
In my experience and understanding, I believe you are right.

I've heard all too long that God separates Himself from us when we sin, will fully or not. God knows I've had my battle with sin, I'm not ashamed to admit that, I will boast about my weakness!
But I have found that when I sought God, He was ALWAYS there. And I was always surprised because my mind tells me He had abandoned me because what I had done, which leads to more shame, more discouragement, less feeling worthy enough to seek Him.
The teaching of God abandons you to your sin leads man down a deeper hole.
Not that I condone or justify sin in any way.

But I believe some people think they are better fathers to their children than our Good Father Himself!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The "KINGDOM OF GOD" is not referring to eternal heaven, but to the church. The church that Jesus set up is called by many different names in the scriptures. When Christ died on the cross for all that his Father gave him he washed them as white as snow. No sin that they do will hinder them from having eternal life.
The "KINGDOM OF GOD" is not referring to eternal heaven, but to the church. The church that Jesus set up is called by many different names in the scriptures. When Christ died on the cross for all that his Father gave him he washed them as white as snow. No sin that they do will hinder them from having eternal life.
So adulterer, murderer, liar, etc Will go to heaven, but not inherit the church?

What is inherit the church look like?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Abiding in Christ is when we are following his commandments. None of us can continually abide in him without yielding our bodies to the lust of the things of the world, which makes it necessary to repent. We, at the times when we are walking in the flesh (sinning) do not lose our eternal salvation, but we do lose our fellowship with God until we repent. When we repent and God forgives us, we have been saved (delivered) from the results of our sin.
Why should you repent if salvation is irrevocable? why do you keep repenting? what happens if you don't repent?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Salvation, according to Strong's definition means "a deliverance". God would not tell us that eternal deliverance is not by our works, and then turn around and tell us to work out our eternal deliverance, unless he was talking about two different deliverance.
GOD IS not the author of confusion so then "work out your own Salvation" would have to be talking about
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version


1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM MUST worship HIM In Spirit and In TRUTH.

Grace is Grace
Work Is work
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
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In my experience and understanding, I believe you are right.

I've heard all too long that God separates Himself from us when we sin, will fully or not. God knows I've had my battle with sin, I'm not ashamed to admit that, I will boast about my weakness!
But I have found that when I sought God, He was ALWAYS there. And I was always surprised because my mind tells me He had abandoned me because what I had done, which leads to more shame, more discouragement, less feeling worthy enough to seek Him.
The teaching of God abandons you to your sin leads man down a deeper hole.
Not that I condone or justify sin in any way.

But I believe some people think they are better fathers to their children than our Good Father Himself!
By your words of your faith, I perceive that you are a born again child of God. You are among those in John 6:38 that God gave to Christ to die for and will spend eternity in heaven. Christ died to pay for our sins, period, it's a done deal. any sin that we commit will separate us from fellowship with God until we repent, but it will not separate us from heaven.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
GOD IS not the author of confusion so then "work out your own Salvation" would have to be talking about
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version


1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM MUST worship HIM In Spirit and In TRUTH.

Grace is Grace
Work Is work
The salvation (deliverance) we work out as we sojourn here on earth is not our eternal deliverance, but a deliverance we receive here on earth. After we are born again we struggle to follow the commandments that God has given us and sometimes we do yield our bodies through our lust to the things of this world. When we do this, we do not lose our eternal inheritance, only our fellowship with God. God pricks our heart and we feel guilty and repent. When we repent and God forgives us, we have been delivered (saved) from the results of our sin. That is how we work out our own salvation (deliverance).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
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Why should you repent if salvation is irrevocable? why do you keep repenting? what happens if you don't repent?
Eternal salvation (deliverance) is irrevocable. We must learn how to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures. We are delivered many times as we repent of our sins here on earth. Our eternal deliverance is not affected by the sins we do, because Christ died and paid for every one of them.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
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Why should you repent if salvation is irrevocable? why do you keep repenting? what happens if you don't repent?
If you don't repent it will not take away the fact that Jesus died and payed for that sin. You will not be in a good fellowship with God until you repent, but his fellowship is all that will be taken away from you, not eternal heaven.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
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So adulterer, murderer, liar, etc Will go to heaven, but not inherit the church?

What is inherit the church look like?
The scriptures teach that the church is to have discipline within it when a person comes to the husband without the attire of a bride, the righteousness of Christ.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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The scriptures teach that the church is to have discipline within it when a person comes to the husband without the attire of a bride, the righteousness of Christ.
So you believe the church discipline murderer but the murderer do not need repent for the purpose go to heaven?

What is church discipline look like?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
So you believe the church discipline murderer but the murderer do not need repent for the purpose go to heaven?

What is church discipline look like?
John 6:38, plainly states that Jesus died to pay for the sins of only those that His Father gave him, which was not all of mankind, and said that all he died for will live with him in heaven. Did he pay for King David's sin of murder adultery? Yes and he will live in heaven. The Church is directed to not receive any elect child of God who are actively participating in a sin. If I am not mistaken, Paul instructed one of the churches to exclude a man for having sex with his mother. I may be wrong on that, because I did not take time to look it up. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
If you don't repent it will not take away the fact that Jesus died and payed for that sin. You will not be in a good fellowship with God until you repent, but his fellowship is all that will be taken away from you, not eternal heaven.
"..forgive us our trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us.."
It is what you do and not what you say. True repentance is forgiving others, if you don't then it won't matter how many words you shout.
The shaded part is your own thinking.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Eternal salvation (deliverance) is irrevocable. We must learn how to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures. We are delivered many times as we repent of our sins here on earth. Our eternal deliverance is not affected by the sins we do, because Christ died and paid for every one of them.
So why is everyone not saved then?

There are no categories of salvation, just one which is being saved from sin/eternal death/corruption of this world/wrath of God. All these mean the same thing.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
113
So you believe the church discipline murderer but the murderer do not need repent for the purpose go to heaven?

What is church discipline look like?
repent once for salvation and then by the mercies of GOD after Salvation present your bodies which Includes your mind a LIVING sacrifice renewing your mind to the new creation you have become not to conform to the world but be transformed so that you can Prove what Is that good and acceptable perfect will of GOD and all the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,Love.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
John 6:38, plainly states that Jesus died to pay for the sins of only those that His Father gave him, which was not all of mankind, and said that all he died for will live with him in heaven. Did he pay for King David's sin of murder adultery? Yes and he will live in heaven. The Church is directed to not receive any elect child of God who are actively participating in a sin. If I am not mistaken, Paul instructed one of the churches to exclude a man for having sex with his mother. I may be wrong on that, because I did not take time to look it up. Please correct me if I am wrong.
So basically you believe adulterer don't need to repent and go to heaven, only eclude from church, not eclude from heaven.

Murderer, teaft etc do not need to repent because Jesus die to pay for that, am I correct?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
repent once for salvation and then by the mercies of GOD after Salvation present your bodies which Includes your mind a LIVING sacrifice renewing your mind to the new creation you have become not to conform to the world but be transformed so that you can Prove what Is that good and acceptable perfect will of GOD and all the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,Love.
After repent for salvation become new creation, is new creation can not sin?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
So why is everyone not saved then?

There are no categories of salvation, just one which is being saved from sin/eternal death/corruption of this world/wrath of God. All these mean the same thing.
John 6:38, Christ only died for the sins of those that his Father gave to him, and God did not give him all mankind, if he had died for all mankind, then all mankind will live in heaven, because Jesus said that he would not lose any of those that he died for. That is why everyone is not saved.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
So basically you believe adulterer don't need to repent and go to heaven, only eclude from church, not eclude from heaven.

Murderer, teaft etc do not need to repent because Jesus die to pay for that, am I correct?
If they have been born again, and are actively participating in sin the church is instructed to exclude them from the church, but God will not exclude them from eternal life in heaven, because if they have been born again Christ payed for their sins. God elected a people before the foundation of the world, Eph1, because he saw by his foreknowledge that no one would seek him, no, not one, Psalms 53:2, and sometime after their natural birth God quickens them to a spiritual life.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
After repent for salvation become new creation, is new creation can not sin?
The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law, because he cannot discern spiritual things, 1 Cor 2:14, Only those that have been born again will repent of breaking a spiritual law. Yes, even after we are born again, we still sin, but our sin will not keep us out of heaven, because those that Christ died for, God's elect, their sins have been paid for and they will live in heaven.