The Keys and Loosing and Binding

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Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#81
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#81
posthuman said:
you are saying that previous to Acts 15 Peter is preaching a false gospel?
how do you get that from the text?

why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? ​
(Acts 10:10) ​
​
are these the words of a man who has been believing and preaching this yoke is salvation?
and wants 'from then on' to preach something different?
he doesn't seem to me to be making the argument that anything has changed - James doesn't take him that way:

Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. ​
(Acts 10:14) ​
​
"at the first" -- Abraham. Gentile. nothing about law here, only about a people being chosen by God.

where do you get "from a literal reading" that Peter is has two gospels and is deciding "from then on" to preach a different gospel?
they send men to Antioch, a church Peter founded. the church in Antioch is questioning what they should do because certain Jews are telling them they should be circumcised keep the law of Moses -- something that is apparently radically different than the gospel they first heard and believed from Peter.

if anything here, James is the one who becomes enlightened, because it's men from James that make Peter act hypocritically in the account given in Galatians 2.

where do you get from the text that Peter has some kind of epiphany and goes from preaching one gospel to an entirely different gospel "from then on" ?
Click to expand...
Now you are striking the heart of the deal.
We see the gospel opened to the gentiles.
The paulines see only paul as preaching the true gospel.
They see 2 gospels.
The false gospel that came from Jesus that the non paulines preached.
Then the true gospel of grace that came solely from paul.
Even peters revelation that the lord commanded the gentiles be brought in is poo pooed by them.
It is even critical for them that peters revelation come AFTER pauls same revelation. (For some bizarre reason).
Which peter was probably shown it first.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#82
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#82
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
(Acts 4:12)
​
doesn't sound like preaching the law of Moses to me *shrug*

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
(Galatians 3:12)
​
it's clear all over the NT that Moses' law & faith are contrasted. is Peter pre-Acts-15 preaching law or faith?

By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through Him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.
(Acts 3:16)
​
hmm looks like faith. *shrug*
reckon that would explain the persecution.

veils, i guess??
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#83
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#83
tons of what they,the paulines say is true.

But they NEED the reduction of Jesus,james ,Peter....and so on.
They NEED there to be 2 gospels.

Mental cunning false exegesis.

Their deal is cult like.
They say "gospel of the kingdom=bad,and Jesus preached that false gospel"
Then you show them where paul preached it in acts.

"Oh,well blah,blah,blah thats Different."
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#84
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#84
Absolutely said:
Now you are striking the heart of the deal.
Click to expand...

​
And the skillfully woven waistband of the ephod must be of one piece, of the same workmanship
— with gold, with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and with finely spun linen.
(Exodus 28:8) ​
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#85
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#85
Absolutely said:
Then you show them where paul preached it in acts.
Click to expand...
where in acts did st.paul preach gospel of the kingdom? i can only find he preached "kingdom of God"
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#86
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#86
posthuman said:
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.​
(Acts 4:12)​
​
doesn't sound like preaching the law of Moses to me *shrug*

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”​
(Galatians 3:12)​
​
it's clear all over the NT that Moses' law & faith are contrasted. is Peter pre-Acts-15 preaching law or faith?

By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through Him that has completely healed him, as you can all see. ​
(Acts 3:16) ​
​
hmm looks like faith. *shrug*
reckon that would explain the persecution.

veils, i guess??
Click to expand...
Of course.
Stick to your guns.
Jesus died for all humanity. That he was a jew and came to the jew and reached out to the jew first as did the apostles in no way makes it 2 gospels.

The Lord ushered in the judaic preisthood and voided the levitical priesthood.
That covenant is by blood (heb 9)

New covenant extended to the world. All men.
Paul never,ever ushered in a different concept. Only extended it to more people as did peter.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#87
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#87
Absolutely said:
It is even critical for them that peters revelation come AFTER pauls same revelation. (For some bizarre reason).
Which peter was probably shown it first.
Click to expand...
when Paul visited Peter, James & John, they "added nothing" to the gospel which had been revealed to Paul. Galatians 2:6
one gospel. ;)
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#90
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#90
Melach said:
where in acts did st.paul preach gospel of the kingdom? i can only find he preached "kingdom of God"
Click to expand...
same thing.

And note the paulines hyper emphasis on "Paul preached gospel of grace,while Jesus and the apostles the kingdom of God"

Yep Paul preached it too. No foul
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#91
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#91
Melach said:
Jesus' kingdom but the words gospel of the kingdom is not used is all i say
Click to expand...
At a bible study,a pauline hyper doctrine guy blurted out "how many here think Jesus is a king"
None of those guys knew their bibles like the pauline guy.....except me.

He proceeded to tell us how Jesus is not a king.
Now why do they teach such nonsense??

Because they need the "kingdom of God" to be na....for doctrine sake.

I got a news flash for paulines.
He is currently enthroned and presides over his kingdom.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
#92
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#92
Absolutely said:
At a bible study,a pauline hyper doctrine guy blurted out "how many here think Jesus is a king"
None of those guys knew their bibles like the pauline guy.....except me.

He proceeded to tell us how Jesus is not a king.
Now why do they teach such nonsense??

Because they need the "kingdom of God" to be na....for doctrine sake.

I got a news flash for paulines.
He is currently enthroned and presides over his kingdom.
Click to expand...
Refreshing to read your posts brother. We are in agreement on many topics it looks like. Hallelujah The Lord is enthroned and presides over His kingdom!

I have no issue with dispensationalism if its done in moderation, but taken to extremes it becomes heretical with multiple gospels and multiple plans of salvation. Let no man take the words of eternal life from you friends.

There are different "sub-groups" of dispensationalism if I may say so. The Pentecostals I know who are dispensationalists tend to be much more moderate in their views, and do not disregard the words of Jesus or James. What makes them dispensationalists are the beliefs of Pre-trib Rapture, future for Israel and believing in the different Dispensations of human history.
The other group which I consider heretical is the group that preaches no water baptism, no words of Jesus apply to us today but only the prison epistles of Paul and the dreaded two gospels message.
This group also is cessationist usually, which to me is absolutely crazy, Paul speaks of the gifts of the Spirit more than anyone else.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#93
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#93
Melach said:
Jesus' kingdom but the words gospel of the kingdom is not used is all i say
Click to expand...
Either way it is the message of the kingdom.

See,heres the thing.
It is not my message,or even "a" message that is some game changer.

The gospel is a person. Salvation is a person. The new creation is by a person. My walk is with a person.

All in all,everything,.... is summed up in Jesus.

Doctrine and the bible is all secondary or so.

When i know the person,i get my doctrine from him.

When i adore and marvel at him, and i see man in all cunningness trying to reframe the one i serve,i can not just watch it happen.

Jesus first. All others,including Paul...get in some line please..I need to hear the King.
The king of Kings speaks in matt,mark,Luke,john,and acts.

I like it.
He knew he came for the world,not just the jew.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#94
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#94
TooFastTurtle said:
Refreshing to read your posts brother. We are in agreement on many topics it looks like. Hallelujah The Lord is enthroned and presides over His kingdom!

I have no issue with dispensationalism if its done in moderation, but taken to extremes it becomes heretical with multiple gospels and multiple plans of salvation. Let no man take the words of eternal life from you friends.

There are different "sub-groups" of dispensationalism if I may say so. The Pentecostals I know who are dispensationalists tend to be much more moderate in their views, and do not disregard the words of Jesus or James. What makes them dispensationalists are the beliefs of Pre-trib Rapture, future for Israel and believing in the different Dispensations of human history.
The other group which I consider heretical is the group that preaches no water baptism, no words of Jesus apply to us today but only the prison epistles of Paul and the dreaded two gospels message.
Click to expand...
Once i read their book (greens letters)
It really sickened me.

That hyper pauline mess is cult like big time
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
#95
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#95
Absolutely said:
Either way it is the message of the kingdom.

See,heres the thing.
It is not my message,or even "a" message that is some game changer.

The gospel is a person. Salvation is a person. The new creation is by a person. My walk is with a person.

All in all,everything,.... is summed up in Jesus.

Doctrine and the bible is all secondary or so.

When i know the person,i get my doctrine from him.

When i adore and marvel at him, and i see man in all cunningness trying to reframe the one i serve,i can not just watch it happen.

Jesus first. All others,including Paul...get in some line please..I need to hear the King.
The king of Kings speaks in matt,mark,Luke,john,and acts.

I like it.
He knew he came for the world,not just the jew.
Click to expand...
The great commission is enough for us to know Jesus' words apply to everyone and are the very words of eternal life as the disciples said in John 6.

Matthew 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Information we must gather from this: Timing of this is post-resurrection, the New Covenant has come into effect now. Yet Jesus does not say that forget all that I said, new teachings are coming soon. He says the opposite even post-resurrection: He says Go to all nations, baptize them and teach them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have(Past-tense) commanded(past-tense) you.
To make things even more clear, Jesus specifies this commission will last until the end of the world by saying I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

This is so beautiful and easy to understand, much easier than the complicated two gospel charts we see. Jesus did not preach a systematic theology, Jesus did not preach dispensationalism (Sorry!), Jesus preached the kingdom of God, the Gospel.
In the beginning of the synoptic Gospels it reads This is the BEGINNING of the Gospel of the son of God Jesus.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#96
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#96
posthuman said:
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.​
(Acts 4:12)​
​
doesn't sound like preaching the law of Moses to me *shrug*

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”​
(Galatians 3:12)​
​
it's clear all over the NT that Moses' law & faith are contrasted. is Peter pre-Acts-15 preaching law or faith?

By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through Him that has completely healed him, as you can all see. ​
(Acts 3:16) ​
​
hmm looks like faith. *shrug*
reckon that would explain the persecution.

veils, i guess??
Click to expand...
Yes.
They had to throw off ordinances. Wasnt easy,but it did not mean the preached outside the true gospel. The encumberances got torn from paul and the others. Didnt mean there were 2 gospels
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#97
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#97
TooFastTurtle said:
The great commission is enough for us to know Jesus' words apply to everyone and are the very words of eternal life as the disciples said in John 6.

Matthew 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Information we must gather from this: Timing of this is post-resurrection, the New Covenant has come into effect now. Yet Jesus does not say that forget all that I said, new teachings are coming soon. He says the opposite even post-resurrection: He says Go to all nations, baptize them and teach them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have(Past-tense) commanded(past-tense) you.
To make things even more clear, Jesus specifies this commission will last until the end of the world by saying I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

This is so beautiful and easy to understand, much easier than the complicated two gospel charts we see. Jesus did not preach a systematic theology, Jesus did not preach dispensationalism (Sorry!), Jesus preached the kingdom of God, the Gospel.
In the beginning of the synoptic Gospels it reads This is the BEGINNING of the Gospel of the son of God Jesus.
Click to expand...
Exactly
The kingdom of God is the messiah.
He walked the earth. He was among them.
So he said "the kingdom of God is at hand" or "i am here,you are looking at the kingdom"

Think how silly it is to think "the kingdom of God" is now the gospel of the law(as per the hyper paulines).
Jesus
It is all about Jesus
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#98
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,869
113
#98
Absolutely said:
The kingdom of God is the messiah.
Click to expand...
How can the King become His Kingdom? Messiah is the King of Israel and the King of kings. But He will rule over His Kingdom (which will encompass the whole universe). He does not BECOME His Kingdom. That would be Pantheism (which is absurd).
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#99
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#99
Absolutely said:
Yes.
They had to throw off ordinances. Wasnt easy,but it did not mean the preached outside the true gospel. The encumberances got torn from paul and the others. Didnt mean there were 2 gospels
Click to expand...
'not required' ≠ 'not permitted' ≠ 'not wise'
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#100
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#100
posthuman said:
you are saying that previous to Acts 15 Peter is preaching a false gospel?
how do you get that from the text?

why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? ​
(Acts 10:10) ​
​
are these the words of a man who has been believing and preaching this yoke is salvation?
and wants 'from then on' to preach something different?
he doesn't seem to me to be making the argument that anything has changed - James doesn't take him that way:

Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. ​
(Acts 10:14) ​
​
"at the first" -- Abraham. Gentile. nothing about law here, only about a people being chosen by God.

where do you get "from a literal reading" that Peter is has two gospels and is deciding "from then on" to preach a different gospel?
they send men to Antioch, a church Peter founded. the church in Antioch is questioning what they should do because certain Jews are telling them they should be circumcised keep the law of Moses -- something that is apparently radically different than the gospel they first heard and believed from Peter.

if anything here, James is the one who becomes enlightened, because it's men from James that make Peter act hypocritically in the account given in Galatians 2.

where do you get from the text that Peter has some kind of epiphany and goes from preaching one gospel to an entirely different gospel "from then on" ?
Click to expand...
You are not going to agree with me anyway so let us agree to disagree here
 
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