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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
In fact, until Charles Finney and his ilk came along, the greatest evangelists were Reformed.

And, Finney wasn't a great evangelist. He was a heretic who denied justification by faith alone, imputed righteousness, original sin and substitutionary atonement.

Unfortunately evangelicals have largely been influenced by Finney and his nonsense.
I have never heard of him either.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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I have never heard of him either.
He is a major "hero" with some people...unfortunately even Chuck Smith and Billy Graham praised him.

But, I don't think either of them understood that he denied core Christian doctrines like justification by faith alone, imputed righteousness, substitutionary atonement, and original sin.

I consider him to be a villain and not a hero. I can't see how he could be a Christian if he denied those doctrines, as they are core Christian teachings.

One of my pastor friends considered him to be a great hero, too, until he learned that the guy taught, basically, Pelagian theology. I guess people don't usually study the theology of these guys.

Finney would go into towns, and discredit their pastors by ridiculing them. Then he would preach to the townspeople, and many would supposedly accept Christianianity as a result of his persuasive techniques.

When he left town, the vast majority would forsake their alleged faith. However, the revival numbers looked good because a lot of false converts would profess faith.

Finney bragged about being able to convince anyone to come to faith within 20 minutes through his persuasive techniques. That is a clue to the issues with his theology. They were focused on persuasion and not the power of God. Another clue that there is a problem is that he focused on emotionalism and working the person into an emotional state until they responded.

Part of the techniques employed involved putting the person in a "witness chair" and interrogating him about his sins until he broke down and confessed Christ. I view it as some type of torture session. I imagine a lot of the people simply got tired and confessed even though they really didn't mean it.

This is all part of the "decisional regeneration" view of evangelizing. Bend the person's arm behind their back until they accept Jesus, and then you can cut another mark on the handle of your six-gun. Never mind discipling the guy afterwards, and integrating him into the community of believers you are a part of. This isn't real Christianity.

Here's a paper on Finney if anyone is interested:

http://www.sjsu.edu/people/jennifer.rycenga/courses/RelS191F12/s0/FinneyArticle.pdf
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Part of the techniques employed involved putting the person in a "witness chair" and interrogating him about his sins until he broke down and confessed Christ. I view it as some type of torture session. I imagine a lot of the people simply got tired and confessed even though they really didn't mean it.
Sounds like an intervention. I've seen that technique fail misrably as a therapy technique. It never occurred to me that anyone would try it as a witnessing technique. I can see it becoming violent in some cases.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
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Sounds like an intervention. I've seen that technique fail misrably as a therapy technique. It never occurred to me that anyone would try it as a witnessing technique. I can see it becoming violent in some cases.
It was actually called an anxious seat.

The anxious seat was a particular seat in a public place in the meeting where the anxious may come and be addressed particularly, be made the subject of prayer and be conversed with individually. Finney admitted its design was philosophical, not theological.20 We would today say it was psychological. When the sinner came forward, a few minutes would be spent in personal conversation in order to learn the state of mind of the individual in order to remove their difficulties. The goal was to get each of them to promise to give their hearts to God.21
Finney saw the anxious seat as vital to evangelism because it served to make conversions quick. Finney was too impatient for sinners to wrestle with conviction for days, weeks or even years as in the old days. He wanted instant conversions and instant results. If a man will not get saved at the anxious seat, Finney believed the Holy Spirit would forsake him there.22 (Thus Finney taught that a person must come to the anxious seat to be saved.23 The anxious (or mourner's) bench came to be regarded as a veritable mercy-seat where grace is supposed to abound, as though the Spirit of God manifested His saving and sanctifying power there as nowhere else .24 Finney defended the anxious seat because so many were being saved as a result of its use. It worked, or at least it seemed to produce results, therefore God must approve of it.25 In Finney's system, the anxious seat was seen to fill the same need for a public testimony as baptism did in the early church.26
The mourner’s bench also satisfied the evangelist’s need to be able to demonstrate public results of his ministry and preaching. It was easy to count how many “came forward to get saved” and such figures could then be reported to demonstrate how effective and “Spirit-filled” the evangelist was. It was harder to do that if everyone was getting saved in their seats.
There was much public opposition to the use of the anxious seat. Charles Spurgeon was concerned about the emphasis of stream-lining conversion into aspeedy business. He wrote "I am glad to see instantaneous conversions, but I am more glad when I see a thorough work of grace, a deep sense of sin and an effectual wounding by the law." He also observed that it is a motion of the heart and not a motion of the feet to come to Christ. Many came to Christ in body by going forward to the anxious seat but never came in heart .27Horatius Bonar remarked on usage of anxious seats to multiply conversions "Our whole anxiety is, not how shall we secure the glory of Jehovah but how shall we multiply conversions?”28 There were fears that the anxious seat would be used to psychologically twist a sinner under conviction. The sinner is under conviction but is now forced to come forward where his condition is made known in public. This would force him into a position of making some sort of public profession. It scared many away from any profession because they did not want to be held up to ridicule.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
It was actually called an anxious seat.

The anxious seat was a particular seat in a public place in the meeting where the anxious may come and be addressed particularly, be made the subject of prayer and be conversed with individually. Finney admitted its design was philosophical, not theological.20 We would today say it was psychological. When the sinner came forward, a few minutes would be spent in personal conversation in order to learn the state of mind of the individual in order to remove their difficulties. The goal was to get each of them to promise to give their hearts to God.21
Finney saw the anxious seat as vital to evangelism because it served to make conversions quick. Finney was too impatient for sinners to wrestle with conviction for days, weeks or even years as in the old days. He wanted instant conversions and instant results. If a man will not get saved at the anxious seat, Finney believed the Holy Spirit would forsake him there.22 (Thus Finney taught that a person must come to the anxious seat to be saved.23 The anxious (or mourner's) bench came to be regarded as a veritable mercy-seat where grace is supposed to abound, as though the Spirit of God manifested His saving and sanctifying power there as nowhere else .24 Finney defended the anxious seat because so many were being saved as a result of its use. It worked, or at least it seemed to produce results, therefore God must approve of it.25 In Finney's system, the anxious seat was seen to fill the same need for a public testimony as baptism did in the early church.26
The mourner’s bench also satisfied the evangelist’s need to be able to demonstrate public results of his ministry and preaching. It was easy to count how many “came forward to get saved” and such figures could then be reported to demonstrate how effective and “Spirit-filled” the evangelist was. It was harder to do that if everyone was getting saved in their seats.
There was much public opposition to the use of the anxious seat. Charles Spurgeon was concerned about the emphasis of stream-lining conversion into aspeedy business. He wrote "I am glad to see instantaneous conversions, but I am more glad when I see a thorough work of grace, a deep sense of sin and an effectual wounding by the law." He also observed that it is a motion of the heart and not a motion of the feet to come to Christ. Many came to Christ in body by going forward to the anxious seat but never came in heart .27Horatius Bonar remarked on usage of anxious seats to multiply conversions "Our whole anxiety is, not how shall we secure the glory of Jehovah but how shall we multiply conversions?”28 There were fears that the anxious seat would be used to psychologically twist a sinner under conviction. The sinner is under conviction but is now forced to come forward where his condition is made known in public. This would force him into a position of making some sort of public profession. It scared many away from any profession because they did not want to be held up to ridicule.
I would not have a positive response to tactics like that.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Yes. and confrontational therapy can very damaging. Especially when the consumer lashes out or regresses when they feel like they are being singled out, grouped on or attacked. Some were bullied at home, in school or in prison. It's the fight or flight response.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
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I would like to recommend this book relating to the topic of union with Christ and identity in Christ:

The Christian's True Identity, Jonathan Landry Cruse

https://smile.amazon.com/Christians...keywords=Jonathan+cruse&qid=1578315215&sr=8-1

Here is a sermon series that the book is based upon:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....ity&keyworddesc=The+Christian's+True+Identity

Every Christian really should understand the concepts Jonathan has presented in the book and the messages. Otherwise, they really don't understand the core elements of Christianity.