Galatian Conundrums

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Jan 12, 2019
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Pretty much.

I just don't agree that there were 2 separate gospels.


I think if you understand what the gospel is you see that Peter doesn't ever contradict it. He just doesn't preach all of it right away...
He did not want to be associated with the gentiles and only went to Cornelius house under protest

He was astonished in acts 10 that gentiles could be saved without the law and being circumcised

That is enough proof to me about his beliefs about salvation before that.

But if you disagree I am fine. Let’s not continue arguing in Circles anymore. Cheers
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Guojing, I want to know what your motives are.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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My motive is to understand how different people can read the same bible and yet come to very different conclusions.
Bigotry and prejudice are not hard to understand.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Bigotry and prejudice are not hard to understand.
Of course, if you choose to label anyone who disagrees with you in such negative terms, it is very easy to resolve. :LOL:
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Of course, if you choose to label anyone who disagrees with you in such negative terms, it is very easy to resolve. :LOL:
Nothing to do with that. It is more to do with taking scripture out of context and taking verses in isolation. Do that and you can make the Bible say anything.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Nothing to do with that. It is more to do with taking scripture out of context and taking verses in isolation. Do that and you can make the Bible say anything.
Well, it is very easy for anyone of us to tell ourselves "We are understanding them in context, so the other party must therefore be wrong".

It is more difficult for us to put ourselves in the other person's shoes and ask, "Hmm why is he reading something else in this passage. I see he started with different assumptions, that is how he understandably interpret differently from me."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Well, it is very easy for anyone of us to tell ourselves "We are understanding them in context, so the other party must therefore be wrong".

It is more difficult for us to put ourselves in the other person's shoes and ask, "Hmm why is he reading something else in this passage. I see he started with different assumptions, that is how he understandably interpret differently from me."
It has a lot to do with what we were taught as children and the place of worship we attend. It is easy to recognise to various cults.

Anyway my computer crashed yesterday and I have just reinstalled Windows, so I'm busy downloading software etc. It will take all day and then some.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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It is like this. We are told to believe in Jesus. What are we to believe? We are intended to believe in Jesus as revealed in the Bible from the Old Testament onwards, and right from the beginning, when we read about the I AM we are reading about Jesus the Creator God, and this is what we are meant to believe. Now, He resides in the hearts of believers. These are the true Christians. There are those who only believe Jesus was a good man and a prophet, but there it ends. As only God can save from sin, then I fear for the souls of those who deny the full divinity of Jesus. May the love of Christ dwell in you always. Amen.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It is like this. We are told to believe in Jesus. What are we to believe? We are intended to believe in Jesus as revealed in the Bible from the Old Testament onwards, and right from the beginning, when we read about the I AM we are reading about Jesus the Creator God, and this is what we are meant to believe. Now, He resides in the hearts of believers. These are the true Christians. There are those who only believe Jesus was a good man and a prophet, but there it ends. As only God can save from sin, then I fear for the souls of those who deny the full divinity of Jesus. May the love of Christ dwell in you always. Amen.
You are saved now, according to 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Don't mix the Jewish program with yours.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Jesus came as the Saviour of mankind the first time and next time He will rule over all the earth. He left us a legacy, but some do not believe he was the Messiah. How sad.
 

tantalon

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Oct 11, 2019
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Galatian 2

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.


Who knows what is going on in this passage?
The gospel of the uncircumcision is referring to all non- Jews to which Paul had received a mandate to preach to from God. Peter, on the other hand had a priority given to him to preach to the circumcision or Jews. Verse 9 speaks of this realization between Peter, James and John, who were a team, that they would preach to the Jews, while Paul and Barnabas would go unto the heathen (Gentiles).
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The gospel of the uncircumcision is referring to all non- Jews to which Paul had received a mandate to preach to from God. Peter, on the other hand had a priority given to him to preach to the circumcision or Jews. Verse 9 speaks of this realization between Peter, James and John, who were a team, that they would preach to the Jews, while Paul and Barnabas would go unto the heathen (Gentiles).
Do both groups have to follow the law of Moses or was it just the circumcised?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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He did not want to be associated with the gentiles and only went to Cornelius house under protest

He was astonished in acts 10 that gentiles could be saved without the law and being circumcised

That is enough proof to me about his beliefs about salvation before that.

But if you disagree I am fine. Let’s not continue arguing in Circles anymore. Cheers
Why in the world would you try and make it about the flesh? .Jew or Gentile?

I think he went to Cornelius house as the faith of Christ worked in him moving him to do the will of God. There are no lost Tribes. They are all present and accounted for.

Outward Jews today still resisting the work of the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of faith .

Inward Jews born again jew like the gentiles have the Spirit of Christ as the power in these bodies of death. We would never think the power was of dead flesh .

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man (jew or gentile) have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Do both groups have to follow the law of Moses or was it just the circumcised?
Romans 9&10 pretty much destroy your 2 gospel deal

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

10
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For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Clearly Paul who had been called to both Jew and greek,circumcised and non circumcised,clearly,clearly,laid it out as ONE GOSPEL,AND ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST JESUS.

NO 2 GOSPEL BALONEY.
HERE WE SEE PAUL,WITH THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO TELL US THAT THE JEWS UNDER PETER ARE GIVEN SOME SECOND GOSPEL BALONEY. AND THE PRE ASCENDED CHRIST HAD GIVEN A FLAWED GOSPEL OF LAW AND GRACE TO THE FIRST CHURCH OF THE JEWS.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You are saved now, according to 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Don't mix the Jewish program with yours.
Paul used his own Jewish program to reach the Jews and avoid being scourged.

He shaved his head and took a vow under his Jewish program.
Had his brethren circumcised as one member pointed out to you.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Where as literal interpretation means to interpret scripture solely on the basis of what words say and mean. Of course this leads to appparent contradiction that must be reconciled into a literal view that agrees with all the scriptures.

A good i. e. would be this 2 vs 1 gospel conflict. Truth is: it is beating at the air. There is no conflict just bad understanding.

And instead of dialogue we just have this obscene effort to shut down any real discussion of the facts in scripture.
Oh the irony of your ignorance and false doctrine. It is scripture itself that testifies that you are way off. And it is your 2 gospel baloney. We exposed it. You believe it and preach it.


Reminds me of the 3 stages of how truth is acknowledged :)

The process of acknowledging a truth is broken down into three stages:
  1. The first stage is ridicule. When a new idea or concept is brought up, it’s so strange that it’s completely absurd. People cannot fathom this idea and how it fits into their lives, so they simply laugh at how impossible it seems.
  2. The second stage is opposition. After a new concept made it past the first stage, people begin to worry that it’s here to stay. A few might support the concept, but most will resist because they see it as a threat to everything they’re familiar with.
  3. The third stage is self-evident. There is increasing evidence that supports the idea, which goes from having a few early supporters to entering the mainstream. A majority of people support the fact and come to accept it as a given.
It is push back against false doctrine.
There is no such thing as 2 gospels.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Clearly Paul who had been called to both Jew and greek,circumcised and non circumcised,clearly,clearly,laid it out as ONE GOSPEL,AND ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST JESUS.

NO 2 GOSPEL BALONEY.
HERE WE SEE PAUL,WITH THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO TELL US THAT THE JEWS UNDER PETER ARE GIVEN SOME SECOND GOSPEL BALONEY. AND THE PRE ASCENDED CHRIST HAD GIVEN A FLAWED GOSPEL OF LAW AND GRACE TO THE FIRST CHURCH OF THE JEWS.
If you are willing to see acts as a transitional period between the 2, it will become clear.