Christianity......what I have learned on here.

On the contrary. It is hiding that keeps us from self knowledge. Who am I? It is the journey of a lifetime.

On the contrary. It is hiding that keeps us from self knowledge. Who am I? It is the journey of a lifetime.

Is OP gay or just a pagan? Or maybe both, I'm not sure.

Hey Dibby53 , before I go into what you have said. I want to tell you that it is alright to have those doubts/thinking and that I have been having those very thoughts myself. The beauty here is that beyond those doubts lies a secret treasure and once you know it , it is beautiful. I have been studying the Bible for answers and am still on this journey of searching for deeper answers but the ones that kept me scratching my head, those very ones are answered. I can feel you when you indirectly ask this question "how can the gospel be good news when most of the people are condemned?" I looked down the thread for some answers and I saw people saying stuff like - we were already condemned and that is what I believe so too but one thing that people fail to recognize is the truth that 'the good news of the gospel shall be to ALL people' , I can quote verses which go like ' God desires all men to be saved' , 'Jesus is the savior of the whole world' , 'thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven' , so if God's will is that all men be saved , then why not. So Jesus has saved the world. He is the Savior - He is not letting people's hands slip away from His when they die with the 'wrong beliefs' . I believe , after my in depth study of the Bible in a millenial age of restitution.
I had those very thoughts and you have put it together well, you have been honest and many of us aren't here I guess. It ain't easy to admit stuff and not feel judged by other Christians.
I am in no way undermining the importance of being good or walking like Christ and to preach the gospel. But I want to put forth that if you present to people the Good news in a way that appears as bad news to them then what is Gospel by definition? Is there a Heavenly dictionary that defines it. Isn't it supposed to bring joy to all people. And that is what I believe in that it is the 'good tidings of the gospel which shall be to ALL people'.

Hey Dibby53 , before I go into what you have said. I want to tell you that it is alright to have those doubts/thinking and that I have been having those very thoughts myself. The beauty here is that beyond those doubts lies a secret treasure and once you know it , it is beautiful. I have been studying the Bible for answers and am still on this journey of searching for deeper answers but the ones that kept me scratching my head, those very ones are answered. I can feel you when you indirectly ask this question "how can the gospel be good news when most of the people are condemned?" I looked down the thread for some answers and I saw people saying stuff like - we were already condemned and that is what I believe so too but one thing that people fail to recognize is the truth that 'the good news of the gospel shall be to ALL people' , I can quote verses which go like ' God desires all men to be saved' , 'Jesus is the savior of the whole world' , 'thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven' , so if God's will is that all men be saved , then why not. So Jesus has saved the world. He is the Savior - He is not letting people's hands slip away from His when they die with the 'wrong beliefs' . I believe , after my in depth study of the Bible in a millenial age of restitution.
I had those very thoughts and you have put it together well, you have been honest and many of us aren't here I guess. It ain't easy to admit stuff and not feel judged by other Christians.
I am in no way undermining the importance of being good or walking like Christ and to preach the gospel. But I want to put forth that if you present to people the Good news in a way that appears as bad news to them then what is Gospel by definition? Is there a Heavenly dictionary that defines it. Isn't it supposed to bring joy to all people. And that is what I believe in that it is the 'good tidings of the gospel which shall be to ALL people'.

Dear God...
Please shine Your Amazing grace on @Dibby53 , and bring him to Your beloved Son who died for Dibby also...
Dear Dibby...
Many have gone before you seeking knowledge and truth , and many will come after you seeking the same things , but you are seeking in the wrong places , Jesus made it very clear there is a broad path and a narrow path but few find the narrow path...

I pray you will seek the LORD , I pray next time when you are in your garden looking at all the beautiful things that God has so kindly given you for your hands to work , that you will look up and ask God to give you understanding of who He is...

When we are spiritually dead , ( as you are ) you will seek your truth all over the place , but when you seek God and understand what Jesus has done for you , I can say you will never thirst again...

...xox...

I think it would be wrong to ask you to leave.
I simply assume that you came to the conclusion you wanted to come to.
I invite ya to stick around, and am not your enemy.
I can disagree with someone and not despise them, as I also enjoy the cut and thrust of debate.
I also give you props for not being offended during our exchange. We both spoke pointedly and directly, and saddly in this day it's a rare trait for someone to have enough sand to be able to endure the cut and thrust of a debate.

Fair enough Adstar. How will you know the thoughts guided by the holy spirit?
I do not think that my thought structures will lead me to wisdom. Most of the time thoughts are completely conditioned by my past. It is my doubting of those thoughts and especially questioning everything that can eventually lead to wisdom.

Thankyou for your kind words. It is like the lions den here sometimes lol x

1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.

2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.

3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.

4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.

5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.

6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.

7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.

8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.

9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".

10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??

If you have ever visited a museum; studied philosophy, and science; had treatment from a doctor who has taken a Hippocratic oath; been to the theatre; voted democratically and ever been in a classroom that has taught you Pythagoras's Theorem and geometry then you have used treasure bequeathed to you from the classical, pagan world of Greece.

I would also want you to stick around Dibby53.. While ever someone is still seeking even if they are a few miles down the wrong path there is always a chance they can be lifted up by the LORD and put on the right path, if He wills it to be..

You might think i am one of the lions here Dibby53, But i am not a Lion out to seek your destruction::

1 Peter 5: KJV
8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

But i do follow a Lion in scripture. So not all Lions are bad, even if they roar every now and then..

Revelation 5: KJV
4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. {5} And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. {6} And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. {7} And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."

The Lamb of God who was slain on the cross to take away the sins of the world is the Lion of the tribe of Juda.. my LORD Jesus

God wrote a book which covered about 4000 years of history and teachings. I am not sure why people would think that would be an easy thing to read or understand. However, we know through Gods help it can be understood. Sadly I do not think it is the book which is at fault. It is the people reading it. Far to many people want to interpret a book to fit their belief system, And not form their belief system though the book. And since human pride run deep, We do see all these heated arguments, even among Gods people. Which I agree, is quite sad.



1. God has the right to be jealous when people worship other Gods, Especially when these Gods are not real. But figments of mankind’s imaginations. Gods which can not do anything. And are a substitute. Not just because it hurts him, But because it hurts us. Look at the history of mankind and how all the evils which are out of the worship of these other Gods. From sacrifice of babies, to forced prostitution’s of young women. Even today. How women and children are willing to commit suicide in the name of their God. And how they claim that their God is the one true God and all people who do not bow to him should be killed.

2. God favors no ethnic group. He so loved all the earth and everyone in it he gave his own son for them. He chose one nation as a nation of priests. Whose duty it was was to spread the love of God to the world. Yet they failed. Much like the church today has failed. I pray we all do not blame God for the sin of the people who claim to be his people. If you study the Bible, you will see in the end the whole world is blessed By God. Which is the way God intended it. Sin broke the peace. Not God.



Fear in The word means to honor and respect or show reverence too. The bible says God did not give us a spirit of fear. But of sound mind. Those trying to preach a fear based gospel are not speaking for God. God sent his son to save not to judge.

As for love. The Bible says he so loved he gave his life that whoever trust him will have eternal life. Not whoever loves him. We can not in this lifetime love him with the kind of love he has for us, Its impossible. we can love him, and the more we get to know him, we learn to love and appreciate him more as we see who he really is. But to love him unconditionally and above all? If we could do this, we would cease sin. Last I read. No one as ever done this, More can they (John the apostle says if we say we have no sin we are deceived) only one man ever did this, and this was Jesus, And praise God for that, Because if he did nto do it. We would have no hope. His sacrifice would have been rejected. And we woudl be lost. For ALL have sinned.


Our kindness in reality comes from what we have inside. God says the most important aspect of a persons life is to love. If we Love, be practice we will nto sin. It is the way we are made.

This issue is not being kind or not. The issue is sin, God told adam, the moment you eat you will in fact die. Adam not only died in that moment but all mankind died. The word we see today is a result of that decision. The penalty of sin is death. And since we all have sinned, everyone here, and everyone everywhere has this penalty against them, and there will sadly be a judgment day. How kind we are or not are will not determine our final fate. What will determine it is how we respond to Gods offer of salvation based on what his son did on the cross. God is offering us the gift of salvation. It is what we chose to do with that gift (recieve in faith, reject in unbelief) that will determine our final fate. No one here can be good enough or kind enough to remove one sin. That does nto mean we should be unkind to everyone and not love. Again, If people are saying this, They are wrong.

The good news of the gospel is the news that although EVERYONE deserves hell. And there is not one thing ANYONE can do to get out of that determined fate based on our sin, God has offered a way out. And he did it based on his love.

People are condemned based on their lack of faith in God. Not on Gods lack of love for them. He died for them also. Even he claims on the day of judgment, He will not be happy to judge, It will be a sad day for all.


Not sure where it says this, If they rejected God then yes. But I do nto see where it says God will wipe your memory of them. I think we will love them forever.


Jesus did not do this, He loved them, He tells us to love them to. His command was for us to go into the world. Not hide from it or barricade ourselves in our own place. Those who teach we should shun them have not shard the truth. They live in fear. And have yet to find the love of God in their hearts. Not saying they are not saved, Only God knows. But they have yet to mature and learn the love of God.


A perceived truth may or may not be real truth. There is one gospel and only on. And though teaching we are to stand up for that truth. And expose the false truths. But the rest of scripture. sadly, people are to stuck in their views and are not open, or even allowing other beliefs. Again, this comes from pride. And yes, many in the church have yet to break their pride. I think we al do this. And it is sad.


Dirty rags is a term used to describe self righteous works. Or works used to gain something, they are self focused. people who are tryign to offer their works to God as payment for sin are not doing them because they love God, or because they even want to serve God (even though they may claim it is) what they are doing is trying to buy Gods love.
You can not buy Gods love. You can only recieve his love, And though this, Love and serve others in a way that is unconditional. And not self focused. A thing God calls works of righteousness.




Sadly, this is not true even of many christians. They can be the most self righteous people on earth. (See the jews, and the history of the church) Even paul mentioned the fact that gentiles (unbelieversin God) who do not know God still follow the law by nature. Where Gods people where continually breaking that same law. And condemning everyone else for breaking it.

Not all christians re saved. That is a misnomer.

Thank you for your response.
Just on point 1. No one has really explained HOW God wrote the books of the bible, to me? My view is that it is a very human construct. Certainly inspired writings, much of it anyway. Who for instance has not been moved by some of the psalms, or the Sermon on the Mount?
Did God take over the bodies of those who wrote, thus it would seem voiding their free will? And why do we think that the scriptures chosen by church tradition and councils in the early centuries after Christ are actually written by God? There were plenty of scriptures that did not make the canon that were highly regarded by the early church ( the letters of Clement, or The Shepherd of Hermas for instance) so who chose and why?

You also admit that there are a great many heated debates and disagreements on scriptural doctrines and interpretation . Who gets to decide?

Sorry for loads of questions, but I,m writing as I think aloud.

Just on salvation. What sort of gift do you know that comes with threat of punishment?

The reason why they hid was that they were naked . The hiding was the result. That's why I asked you do you believe in Christs assessment of you that you are in need of a savior?

On point 6. Heaven will be unbearable , if as you say I will love my unsaved friends and relations forever. Languishing in hell whilst I enjoy heaven ( assuming I get there....) will be hell to me.

On point 10. If Christians are not necessarily any better than non- believers after conversion, but just saved; then why when they die will they suddenly be perfected? If free will operates and they still sin, then why after death will they not sin any more?

1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??