Not By Works

Yes I absolutely would add this in since the experience of grace is absolutely connected to agreeing with God/obeying truth.

Good for the brain indeed!!

Of course I as well ... I know your are brother in Christ!
It was a good discussion..

I kinda see what you saying... I agree the experience of grace helps us live out our sanctified life within for sure.

I think all the resources (holy spirit) are there within us, it is learning to make that be our outward self that is the challenge because of the flesh being always present.

Don't miss what the passage is saying.
Jesus said it is better to get rid of those in the body who cause stumbling than to keep them and cause little ones who believe in Jesus to stumble and go to the eternal flames of hell. But once saved always saved doctrine says that can not ever happen to believers.

Matthew 18:6-9 NAS
whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it (those who cause stumbling) off and throw it from you; it is better for you (little ones who believe in Me) to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it (those who cause stumbling) out and throw it from you. It is better for you (little ones who believe in Me) to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

Very good post.

True submission is when we place ourselves under the mighty hand of God, and allow Him to deal with the root of our sin, which is an inclination towards unbelief, pride, and self idolatry, and progressively transform us to be inciined to faithfulness, humility, and God worship

It is a process of sanctification that begins but does not end at the new birth, although justification and positional sanctification are a completed work, this work is not completed until we are like Him when we see Him just as He is. At the second advent

This process is just as much a part of grace as justification and positional sanctification

The believer who stops believing and goes back to unbelief does lose salvation. And they can not be saved again. God does not allow that.

I don't see how if that's true that makes it impossible that believers can lose their salvation.

He has given us that wisdom.

6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. - Matthew 7:6 NAS

When the people you're sharing the things of God with resort to and become characterized by mocking and abusing and tearing you apart then you know that you are dealing with dogs and swine--unclean creatures. Don't engage them beyond that point. Jesus said so. When these attacks happen in the church they think they are doing God and Christianity a service by tearing you to pieces, but Christ says they are actually unclean creatures. Do not give them what is holy.

I will say that there is a point where you do shake the dust off your feet.

When we sin, is it not in a sense an act of unbelief? And do you discern a difference between temporary backsliding and final apostasy?

( I am a former NOSAS Arminian, so I am using their terms

Do you think it comes naturally?

Is it not something we grow in?
AKA sanctification

I think he meant In other words, we do not manufacture it, He produces it, as we yield to His Grace more and more

And it does grow as we mature, yes.

Loss of rewards maybe?

I know from experience that if you put yourself under a works based religion, you deprive yourself of the Power that produced godliness

You end up having a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.

And a form of godliness is not the genuine article

I was miraculously converted, but kind of fell into a way of thinking that my remaining in grace was in part conditioned on my continued obedience and works and was a hairs breadth away from perfectionism. . God corrected me. So, yes. I believe a believer can fall into error and be restored.

Did I lose my salvation? No. I lost peace and assurance and my fellowship with God was affected. I fell into bondage of sin again. I was unfruitful. I hurt myself and others. But I was restored.

An old hymn said “ the arm of flesh will fail you, you dare not trust your own”.

I think it was “At the Cross”

I had not thought if this... certainly while they were doing what they were doing missing out on the riches of God's grace.

Yes, I think our growth in grace comes naturally as we grow spiritually with Christ to guide us and keep us, while ever we are in His presence.

I don't believe a true believer can fall from grace.
But I do believe a believer can negate the working of grace in their lives.

We only need to look at the prodical son.
Still a son, yet ended up eating the food of pigs after peeing it up against the wall.
Miserable period of time.

Whilst doing that he could not experience the unmerited favour until he returned.
Yet we know he was still a son of the Father.
Being the son and walking with the Father.