All things James

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JohnR7

JohnR7

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#61
Dec 30, 2019
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#61
JamOn said:
that is your opinion,
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I do not have an opinion about a tribulation period. I will be 77 in 2029 so if I even live that long I would be doing good. I do not have any plans to be around much longer then that.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#62
#62
Ephesians 6:4 says, Father don't provoke your children to wrath.

Does that mean it's ok for mother to do so, or uncles, or grand parents?

No! Just because a bit of scripture is not directly addressed to you personally does not mean that there is nothing there for you. Of that were the case the Bible don't apply to you.
 
JamOn

JamOn

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#63
Jun 10, 2019
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#63
JohnR7 said:
I do not have an opinion about a tribulation period. I will be 77 in 2029 so if I even live that long I would be doing good. I do not have any plans to be around much longer then that.
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Ok but still he didn’t speak anything on the topic of 7 years, just saying I was waiting for the guy to start talking about what you said he did.

Neil Degrasse Tyson does talk about a 7 year period of time though that begins in the 2,000 year anniversary of the Church
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#64
Jun 30, 2015
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#64
JohnR7 said:
What I mean is the Hebrew language at the time of Moses. At the time they were living in the wilderness for 40 years and a tent was their dwelling. A camel was a lot better transportation then a Camel. Today people live in high rise apartments and travel on Jet Planes. So we need to look at the meaning of the words at the time the Bible was written. Then we can see how the Bible applies to us today.
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Agreed; I was responding to John146's comment.
 
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dodgingstones

Active member
#65
Nov 20, 2019
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#65
Regarding the idea that James was writing to Jews who still practiced their religion from the First Covenant. That is easily disproved by the fact that James was discussing Christ's Gospel. Clearly, he was addressing the Jews who had become followers of Christ, thus all of his Epistle is relevant to today's Church.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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#66
Dec 10, 2019
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#66
dodgingstones said:
Regarding the idea that James was writing to Jews who still practiced their religion from the First Covenant. That is easily disproved by the fact that James was discussing Christ's Gospel. Clearly, he was addressing the Jews who had become followers of Christ, thus all of his Epistle is relevant to today's Church.
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The Book of James has always been one of my favorites. It really convicts those that have an ear to hear. My tongue has been shape and was used to tear down instead of building up. Chapter 5 I hold dear to my heart. Thanks be to God for giving James the Spirit to write that.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#67
Jun 10, 2019
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#67
the lastest update on the doomsday asteroid of 2029, it will safely pass by all clear.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#68
Jan 13, 2016
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#68
dodgingstones said:
Regarding the idea that James was writing to Jews who still practiced their religion from the First Covenant. That is easily disproved by the fact that James was discussing Christ's Gospel. Clearly, he was addressing the Jews who had become followers of Christ, thus all of his Epistle is relevant to today's Church.
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In order to believe this, you would have to believe that the twelve tribes are only Jewish Christians. This would contradict every other usage of the term throughout Scripture. Are you willing to violate Scripture in this manner?

Does the following sound like he’s addressing Christians? These people have not received the word and needed their souls saved.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#69
Jan 13, 2016
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#69
Aerials1978 said:
The Book of James has always been one of my favorites. It really convicts those that have an ear to hear. My tongue has been shape and was used to tear down instead of building up. Chapter 5 I hold dear to my heart. Thanks be to God for giving James the Spirit to write that.
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Yes, we can glean application from all Scripture, but doctrinally, James is to the nation of Israel in the last days.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#70
Jul 18, 2017
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#70
John146 said:
In order to make James a Christian epistle would mean to contradict every other usage of this term in Scripture. It is certainly not a reference to the diaspora.
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James was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to all Hebrew Christians -- believing Hellenistic Jews who were outside Judea. He calls them "the twelve tribes" because in fact all twelve tribes would have been found in the Roman Empire (which succeeded the Babylonian and Persian empires, thus included all the Jews who had been scattered since about 750 BC when the Assyrian captivity began).

At the same time the epistle of James (along with those of Peter and the book of Hebrews) is not merely for Hebrew Christians, but for the Church -- Jews and Gentiles in one Body. Since Paul says that there is no Jew or Gentile in the Church as far as God is concerned, the entire NT is for all Christians (as well as for the whole world).

James is all about PRACTICAL CHRISTIANITY -- Christian deeds, not words. And that is why he says that faith without works is dead (non-existent).
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#71
Jan 13, 2016
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#71
Nehemiah6 said:
James was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to all Hebrew Christians -- believing Hellenistic Jews who were outside Judea. He calls them "the twelve tribes" because in fact all twelve tribes would have been found in the Roman Empire (which succeeded the Babylonian and Persian empires, thus included all the Jews who had been scattered since about 750 BC when the Assyrian captivity began).

At the same time the epistle of James (along with those of Peter and the book of Hebrews) is not merely for Hebrew Christians, but for the Church -- Jews and Gentiles in one Body. Since Paul says that there is no Jew or Gentile in the Church as far as God is concerned, the entire NT is for all Christians (as well as for the whole world).

James is all about PRACTICAL CHRISTIANITY -- Christian deeds, not words. And that is why he says that faith without works is dead (non-existent).
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There are no twelve tribes in the body of Christ. The term twelve tribes never means Jewish Christians. You’re getting your information from a commentary, not the Bible. Every time the Bible uses the term twelve tribes, it is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole and never Christians from that nation. See my first post.

Whenever Christians out of the twelve tribes are referred to, they are clearly designated from the twelve tribes. Saved Jews are referred to as the “remnant” Romans 9:27, 11:5; the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16; or believing Jews, Romans 1:16.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#72
John146 said:
There are no twelve tribes in the body of Christ.
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Why not? The twelve tribes had been scattered throughout the Roman empire. On the day of Pentecost, there were Jews in Jerusalem from all over the Roman empire. They certainly represented the twelve tribes. Furthermore, Paul went to almost every major synagogue in the Roman empire, and there were Hebrew converts in every church mentioned in the NT. So what makes you think that the twelve tribes are not in the Body of Christ. The Gospel went to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles.
You’re getting your information from a commentary, not the Bible.
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Since I have not consulted any commentary, but going strictly by the biblical record, I believe you cannot possibly refute it.
Every time the Bible uses the term twelve tribes, it is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole and never Christians from that nation.
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If this is true then James was wasting his time writing Christian truth to unconverted Jews OUTSIDE the Body of Christ. James calls himself "a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ". And throughout his epistle he speaks of his "brethren" (in both senses, Christian brethren and Hebrew Christian brethren).
 
J

John146

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#73
Jan 13, 2016
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#73
Nehemiah6 said:
Why not? The twelve tribes had been scattered throughout the Roman empire. On the day of Pentecost, there were Jews in Jerusalem from all over the Roman empire. They certainly represented the twelve tribes. Furthermore, Paul went to almost every major synagogue in the Roman empire, and there were Hebrew converts in every church mentioned in the NT. So what makes you think that the twelve tribes are not in the Body of Christ. The Gospel went to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles.

Since I have not consulted any commentary, but going strictly by the biblical record, I believe you cannot possibly refute it.

If this is true then James was wasting his time writing Christian truth to unconverted Jews within the Body of Christ. James calls himself "a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ". And throughout his epistle he speaks of his "brethren" (in both senses, Christian brethren and Hebrew Christian brethren).
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No Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ. To suggest James is writing to Christians would be contradicing Paul’s writings to the Church.

You did not get the information you stated from Scripture. If you were only going by Scripture, you would never come away with that twelve tribes refers to Christians. When reading every other usage, you would determine that twelve tribes describes the whole nation of Israel, not Jewish Christians. Let the Scripture be honest.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#74
Jan 13, 2016
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#74
Nehemiah6 said:
Why not? The twelve tribes had been scattered throughout the Roman empire. On the day of Pentecost, there were Jews in Jerusalem from all over the Roman empire. They certainly represented the twelve tribes. Furthermore, Paul went to almost every major synagogue in the Roman empire, and there were Hebrew converts in every church mentioned in the NT. So what makes you think that the twelve tribes are not in the Body of Christ. The Gospel went to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles.

Since I have not consulted any commentary, but going strictly by the biblical record, I believe you cannot possibly refute it.

If this is true then James was wasting his time writing Christian truth to unconverted Jews OUTSIDE the Body of Christ. James calls himself "a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ". And throughout his epistle he speaks of his "brethren" (in both senses, Christian brethren and Hebrew Christian brethren).
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James’ usage of the term “brothers” should not be confused with its Christian usage. Paul referred to unsaved Jews as brethren, Romans 9:3.

Many times the term “brothers” or “brethren” simply means kinsmen. Notice that in James 1:21, some who James calls brethren, needed their souls saved.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#75
Jan 13, 2016
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#75
Does this sound like doctrine for the body of Christ? Do the pray of elders bring healing every time? “Shall save the sick” not maybe or sometimes.

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Gifts of healings and such will return in the tribulation to get the Jews to believe the coming of the King and His kingdom.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#76
Jan 12, 2019
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#76
John146 said:
The book of James contains doctrinal truths for the Jews living in the last days of the tribulation as they will be scattered and will face all kinds of trouble.

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The term twelve tribes is used all throughout Scripture, and is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole and never to a called out group from that nation. Genesis 49:28, Exodus 24:4, 28:21, Ezekiel 47:13. And the NT is no different: Matt 19:28, Luke 22:30, Acts 26:7, Revelation 21:12. There is no justification for taking this as anything other than an address to the twelve tribes of Israel. In order to make James a Christian epistle would mean to contradict every other usage of this term in Scripture. It is certainly not a reference to the diaspora.
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The scattering abroad likely took place after Stephen was stoned, which placed James being written after Acts 8, and before the Council event in Acts 15.

The way James wrote his letter, it is highly unlikely that James have even heard of Paul's conversion, hence was not aware of the mysteries that the ascended Christ revealed to Paul.

It is just that, James being placed after Paul's epistles, gave many Christians the impression that James must have already read and understood everything that was stated in Romans-Philemon, before writing his own epistle.

This gives rise to all the attempts trying to force James to agree with Paul.
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

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#77
Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
#77
There was a transition period from OT to NT. The jews were walking by sight. They needed something physical to have faith that is why Jesus needed to perform miracles. They also have different set of instructions than Christians. The book of James is for the Jews because if you apply it to Christians you will come up with contradicting doctrines. You have to rightly divide the Word. It applies to a group of people and to a certain time period. Many reject dispensationalism and called it heresy but you can't deny that it is true in the Bible. With dispensationalism, it is easier to understand the Bible. Without it, the Bible appears to contradict itself. God is speaking to different group of people and different time periods. But if it becomes hyperdispensationalism it becomes heresy.
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

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#78
Jan 3, 2019
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#78
It is explicitly clear that James is addressing the twelve tribes scattered among the nations. The vast majority of the Bible is addressed to Israel, yet I’m thankful that the LORD has grafted me into the cultivated olive tree (Ro 11:17, 24). What James pens harmonizes with many of Paul’s writings and is directly applicable to Gentile believers. Compare, for example James 1:2-4 with Romans 5:3-5. Am I not to “consider it pure joy” when I “face trials” (Jas 1:2 & Ro 5:3)? Am I not to “let perseverance finish its work” so that I may be “mature and complete, not lacking anything” (Jas 1:3 & Ro 5:3-5)?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#79
Jan 12, 2019
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#79
EternalFire said:
It is explicitly clear that James is addressing the twelve tribes scattered among the nations. The vast majority of the Bible is addressed to Israel, yet I’m thankful that the LORD has grafted me into the cultivated olive tree (Ro 11:17, 24). What James pens harmonizes with many of Paul’s writings and is directly applicable to Gentile believers. Compare, for example James 1:2-4 with Romans 5:3-5. Am I not to “consider it pure joy” when I “face trials” (Jas 1:2 & Ro 5:3)? Am I not to “let perseverance finish its work” so that I may be “mature and complete, not lacking anything” (Jas 1:3 & Ro 5:3-5)?
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I appreciate the book of James for it probably contains the longest and the best instructions on how the tongue can be such a powerful part of the body and how to "manage it".

But there is no need to force it to harmonize with Paul when it comes to salvation doctrine. Us in the Body of Christ follow Paul's gospel. Why confuse others with James chapter 2?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#80
Dec 10, 2019
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#80
Guojing said:
I appreciate the book of James for it probably contains the longest and the best instructions on how the tongue can be such a powerful part of the body and how to "manage it".

But there is no need to force it to harmonize with Paul when it comes to salvation doctrine. Us in the Body of Christ follow Paul's gospel. Why confuse others with James chapter 2?
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I was always of opinion that Paul and James complemented each other in their writings. If you have faith but lack being like Christ, how can you grow and produce good fruit? I thought I had faith, but my lack of deeds(Loving others more than myself) showed that I had no fruit to bare. Since I had no fruit I did not mature and eventually fell back into a life of sin. I agree with James, if you have no deeds you really have a fake faith that is not accepted by God.
 
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