Why is Jesus referred to as the Morning Star?

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TheLearner

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#41
Isaiah 14:12 is not the only place where the Vulgate uses the word lucifer. It uses the same word four more times, in contexts where it clearly has no reference to a fallen angel: 2 Peter 1:19 (meaning "morning star"), Job 11:17 ("the light of the morning"), Job 38:32 ("the signs of the zodiac") and Psalms 110:3 ("the dawn").[105] Lucifer is not the only expression that the Vulgate uses to speak of the morning star: three times it uses stella matutina: Sirach 50:6 (referring to the actual morning star), and Revelation 2:28 (of uncertain reference) and 22:16 (referring to Jesus).

Indications that in Christian tradition the Latin word lucifer, unlike the English word, did not necessarily call a fallen angel to mind exist also outside the text of the Vulgate. Two bishops bore that name: Saint Lucifer of Cagliari, and Lucifer of Siena.

In Latin, the word is applied to John the Baptist and is used as a title of Jesus himself in several early Christian hymns. The morning hymn Lucis largitor splendide of Hilarycontains the line: "Tu verus mundi lucifer" (you are the true light bringer of the world).[106] Some interpreted the mention of the morning star (lucifer) in Ambrose's hymn Aeterne rerum conditor as referring allegorically to Jesus and the mention of the cock, the herald of the day (praeco) in the same hymn as referring to John the Baptist.[107] Likewise, in the medieval hymn Christe qui lux es et dies, some manuscripts have the line "Lucifer lucem proferens".[108]

The Latin word lucifer is also used of Jesus in the Easter Proclamation prayer to God regarding the paschal candle: Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum ("May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever"). In the works of Latin grammarians, Lucifer, like Daniel, was discussed as an example of a personal name.[109]
Lucifer - Wikipedia
 

TheLearner

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#42

TheLearner

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#43
New International Version
You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.

New Living Translation
For you said to yourself, ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north.

English Standard Version
You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;

Berean Study Bible
You said in your heart: “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of assembly, in the far reaches of the north.

Christian Standard Bible
You said to yourself, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will set up my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of the gods' assembly, in the remotest parts of the North.

Contemporary English Version
You said to yourself, "I'll climb to heaven and place my throne above the highest stars. I'll sit there with the gods far away in the north.

Good News Translation
You were determined to climb up to heaven and to place your throne above the highest stars. You thought you would sit like a king on that mountain in the north where the gods assemble.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You said to yourself:" I will ascend to the heavens; I will set up my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of the gods' assembly, in the remotest parts of the North.

NET Bible
You said to yourself, "I will climb up to the sky. Above the stars of El I will set up my throne. I will rule on the mountain of assembly on the remote slopes of Zaphon.

New Heart English Bible
You said in your heart, "I will ascend into heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mountain of assembly, in the far north.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
You thought, "I'll go up to heaven and set up my throne above God's stars. I'll sit on the mountain far away in the north where the gods assemble.

As you can see from my last post and these translations, it is an assembly of the false gods in the North. Not the God we know, nor the Heaven we christians understand.
 

TheLearner

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#44
The bible was written in cultural contexts.

explain "I'll sit on the mountain far away in the north where the gods assemble."

This is the best translation of the text.
 

TheLearner

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#45
"he was led by his pride to strive for the highest seat among the star-gods on the northern mountain of the gods (comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14; Ps. xlviii. 3 [A.V. 2]), but was hurled down by the supreme ruler of the Babylonian Olympus. Stars were regarded throughout antiquity as living celestial beings (Job xxxviii. 7)." from a Jewish source.
 

posthuman

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#46
I’ve never heard of it what is it?

a really, really, really non-literal paraphrase of the scriptures that one man wrote. it's the 'version of the Bible' that i was responding to in my post
 

TheLearner

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#47
JOURNAL ARTICLE
Marduk and the cult of the gods of Nippur at Babylon
A. R. George
Orientalia
NOVA SERIES, Vol. 66, No. 1 (1997), pp. 65-70
Marduk and the cult of the gods of Nippur at Babylon on JSTOR

"Ea, Enki, and the younger gods fight against Tiamat futilely until, from among them, emerges the champion Marduk who swears he will defeat Tiamat. Marduk defeats Quingu and kills Tiamat by shooting her with an arrow which splits her in two; from her eyes flow the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Out of Tiamat's corpse, Marduk creates the heavens and the earth, he appoints gods to various duties and binds Tiamat's eleven creatures to his feet as trophies (to much adulation from the other gods) before setting their images in his new home. He also takes the Tablets of Destiny from Quingu, thus legitimizing his reign."Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text

Resources » Encyclopedia of The Bible » M » Mount of Assembly

MOUNT OF ASSEMBLY (הַר־מﯴעֵ֖ד). The prophet Isaiah contrasted the once haughty boastings of the king of Babylon with his present weak and helpless condition. He aspired to sit upon the mount of congregation—apparently some fancied Babylonian Olympus of the gods, but he has been cast down to the depths of Sheol (Isa 14:12-15; KJV, ASV MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION).

Religion and Power: Divine Kingship in the Ancient World and Beyond ...

https://oi.uchicago.edu/.../religion-and-power-divine-kingship-ancient-world-and-bey...


After Shu-Sin the divinization kings was abandoned once more. Whether the kings of the Old Babylonian period (c. 2000–1595 BCE) can be considered divine is still subject to debate. Some consider the kings Rim-Sin of Larsa (1822–1763 BCE) and the famous Hammurabi of Babylon (1792–1750 BCE) to have been divine.

Isaiah 14:13 13 You were determined to climb up to heaven and to place your throne above the highest stars. You thought you would sit like a king on that mountain in the north where the gods assemble.


JOURNAL ARTICLE
Marduk and the cult of the gods of Nippur at Babylon
A. R. George
Orientalia
NOVA SERIES, Vol. 66, No. 1 (1997), pp. 65-70
Marduk and the cult of the gods of Nippur at Babylon on JSTOR

"Ea, Enki, and the younger gods fight against Tiamat futilely until, from among them, emerges the champion Marduk who swears he will defeat Tiamat. Marduk defeats Quingu and kills Tiamat by shooting her with an arrow which splits her in two; from her eyes flow the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Out of Tiamat's corpse, Marduk creates the heavens and the earth, he appoints gods to various duties and binds Tiamat's eleven creatures to his feet as trophies (to much adulation from the other gods) before setting their images in his new home. He also takes the Tablets of Destiny from Quingu, thus legitimizing his reign."Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text

Resources » Encyclopedia of The Bible » M » Mount of Assembly

MOUNT OF ASSEMBLY (הַר־מﯴעֵ֖ד). The prophet Isaiah contrasted the once haughty boastings of the king of Babylon with his present weak and helpless condition. He aspired to sit upon the mount of congregation—apparently some fancied Babylonian Olympus of the gods, but he has been cast down to the depths of Sheol (Isa 14:12-15; KJV, ASV MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION).

Religion and Power: Divine Kingship in the Ancient World and Beyond ...

https://oi.uchicago.edu/.../religion-and-power-divine-kingship-ancient-world-and-bey...


After Shu-Sin the divinization kings was abandoned once more. Whether the kings of the Old Babylonian period (c. 2000–1595 BCE) can be considered divine is still subject to debate. Some consider the kings Rim-Sin of Larsa (1822–1763 BCE) and the famous Hammurabi of Babylon (1792–1750 BCE) to have been divine.
 

TheLearner

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#48
Lucifer, as a name given to the devil, was derived from this passage, which the fathers (and lately Stier) interpreted, without any warrant whatever, as relating to the apostasy and punishment of the angelic leaders. The appellation is a perfectly appropriate one for the king of Babel, on account of the early date of the Babylonian culture, which reached back as far as the grey twilight of primeval times, and also because of its predominant astrological character. The additional epithet chōlēsh ‛al-gōyim is founded upon the idea of the influxus siderum:Isaiah 14 Keil and Delitzsch OT Commentary

Calvin writes,

12. How art thou fallen from heaven! Isaiah proceeds with the discourse which he had formerly begun as personating the dead, and concludes that the tyrant differs in no respect from other men, though his object was to lead men to believe that he was some god. He employs an elegant metaphor, by comparing him to Lucifer, and calls him the Son of the Dawn; [220] and that on account of his splendor and brightness with which he shone above others. The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians. But when passages of Scripture are taken up at random, and no attention is paid to the context, we need not wonder that mistakes of this kind frequently arise. Yet it was an instance of very gross ignorance, to imagine that Lucifer was the king of devils, and that the Prophet gave him this name. But as these inventions have no probability whatever, let us pass by them as useless fables.Isaiah 14 Calvin's Commentaries

Luther states, the tradition that Isaiah 14:12 referred to Satan was "insignis error totius papatus" = "a noteworthy error of the papacy"

I can not find the original source for this claim.
 

TheLearner

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#49
John Gill,
O Lucifer, son of the morning! alluding to the star Venus, which is the phosphorus or morning star, which ushers in the light of the morning, and shows that day is at hand; by which is meant, not Satan, who is never in Scripture called Lucifer, though he was once an angel of light, and sometimes transforms himself into one, and the good angels are called morning stars, Job 38:7 and such he and his angels once were; but the king of Babylon is intended, whose royal glory and majesty, as outshining all the rest of the kings of the earth, is expressed by those names; and which perhaps were such as he took himself, or were given him by his courtiers. The Targum is,

"how art thou fallen from on high, who was shining among the sons of men, as the star Venus among the stars.'
Isaiah 14:12 -

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!—The word for Lucifer is, literally, the shining one, the planet Venus, the morning star, the son of the dawn, as the symbol of the Babylonian power, which was so closely identified with astrolatry. “Lucifer” etymologically gives the same meaning, and is used by Latin poets (Tibull. i., 10, 62) for Venus, as an equivalent for the phôsphoros of the Greeks. The use of the word, however, in mediæval Latin as a name of Satan, whose fall was supposed to be shadowed forth in this and the following verse, makes its selection here singularly unfortunate. Few English readers realise the fact that it is the king of Babylon, and not the devil, who is addressed as Lucifer. While this has been the history of the Latin word, its Greek and English equivalents have risen to a higher place, and the “morning star” has become a name of the Christ (Revelation 22:16).

Isaiah 14:12 -

As you can see there are Christian commentators who agrees with me.
 

TheLearner

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#50
Do Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan?
In my ordination doctrinal statement I included this statement, “If Isa 14 and Ezek 28 allude to Satan, we learn of his pride and pride of place in creation.” Well, the moderator was quick to point out that “if” statements do not belong in doctrinal statements. Lesson learned. But more importantly, the “if” statement revealed my ambivalence about applying these passages to Satan’s fall and Satan’s activity prior to the fall, respectively.

A member of our church recently asked me about these passages. The material in a discipleship book she is working through uses Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 as proof texts for the splendor and activity of the Devil prior to the fall (Ezekiel 28) and the nature of Satan’s fall through pride (Isaiah 14). Consequently, it provided me an opportunity to take a look at the texts and attempt to finally come to a conclusion on the meaning of these passages. This post offers you the results of my brief study.

What you will find below is a brief interaction with Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, a survey of theologies, an overview of commentaries, and my conclusion. I’ve also included some practical helps if/when you use Bible study material that differs with your view. Here’s the fine print on the post: the investigation is limited by the resources available in my personal library. The commentaries with an asterisk are those I do not own but referenced. So I certainly invite you to pass along any resource(s) that contributes to the discussion.

The Passages

Isaiah 14:12-14, “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! [13] You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God; I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High’” (ESV).

Textual Considerations on Isaiah 14:12-14

In our Greek exegesis class, our professor taught us the “exegete’s cheer”: “Context! Context! Yeah Context!” The point of the cheer is to keep a very important interpretive principle before us: the context is critical to determining the meaning of a passage. The context in which Isaiah 14:12-14 is found is a lengthy section of oracles, or pronouncements of doom against nations and kings. In Isaiah 14, we find an announcement of judgment against the king of Babylon, “you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon” (Isaiah 14:4, ESV). As interpreters, we are faced with an important question now. What clue in the text mandates that we move from a literal-historical approach to a figurative understanding of verses 12-14? I do not see any such interpretative license make this shift. Do we do this with any other nation or king mentioned in these oracles? We do not.

Concerning the pride manifested in the five “I wills,” is this arrogance ever manifested by oriental kings or only ascribed to Satan? Ancient kings, by virtue of their exalted position, were quite susceptible and all too often manifested this shameless conceit. For instance, you find this in Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4:30 when he arrogantly boasted, “Is not this great Babylon, which I have built by my mighty power as a royal residence and for the glory of my majesty?” There is nothing alien to a king expressing this kind of egotism, viewing themselves as the supreme figure. There is nothing in Isaiah 14 that mandates assigning the “I wills” to Satan.

Ezekiel 28:11-15, “Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: [12] “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. [13] You were in Eden, the garden of God every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. [14] You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. [15] You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you” (ESV).
 

TheLearner

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#51
Textual Considerations on Ezekiel 28:11-15

There are some tough phrases to interpret with absolute certainty. For example,

“You were a signet of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty” (v. 12)
“You were in Eden” (v. 13)
“Every precious stone was your covering” (v. 13)
“You were on the holy mountain of God” (v. 14)
“You were blameless in your ways” (v. 15)
Some see a double reference in these verses. It is a reference to the King of Tyre and Satan at the same time. Is this a legitimate solution to the admitted difficulty of these texts? Ryrie thinks so as does Charles Feinberg. To apply some of these phrases to the king of Tyre seem difficult, especially “you were blameless in all your ways.” It almost seems like it takes more interpretive work to make them apply to an earthly king than to Satan himself. But there are plausible explanations such as the label “blameless” applied to Noah (Genesis 6:9) and Job (Job 1:1) and Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:6). Thus it is possible to have these phrases applied to a human king. Nevertheless, while these phrases are admittedly difficult to interpret with absolute certainty, we must use the overarching guide of an oracle grounded in a historical setting with some poetic language interspersed. Would Ezekiel’s readers have clearly discerned Satan in these verses? I’m not convinced that they would have.

Survey of Theologies

Isaiah 14 and/or Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan:

Lewis Sperry Chafer (Chafer, Systematic Theology, 7:284-5).
Charles Ryrie (Ryrie, Basic Theology, 141-5). Ryrie is one of the few theologians that interacts with the interpretative options for concluding that the passages apply to Satan. A very worthwhile read.
Henry Thiessen (Lectures in Systematic Theology, 194-5).
Millard Erickson does not address Satan’s fall in his section on angels (Christian Theology, 472). He does, however, point out that Isaiah 14 contains a picture of the fall of Satan (Christian Theology, 604).
James Boice applies Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 to Satan (Foundations of the Christian Faith, 173).
Isaiah 14 and/or Ezekiel 28 do not refer to Satan:

Berkhof, Systematic Theology and Dabney, Systematic Theology simply do not reference the fall of Satan or deal with Isaiah or Ezekiel. However, I take their silence to mean that they do not apply to Satan (though admittedly it is an inference from silence).
As best as I was able to discern, Augustus Strong in his Systematic Theology does not apply Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 to Satan. He only provides passing comments on these passages and does not address the fall of Satan. He seems to take the approach in the brief remarks on each passage that it is referring to a historical, human figure (Systematic Theology, 450 and 518).
Charles Hodge speaks little about the fall of Satan. Concerning evil angels in general he says, “When they fell or what was the nature of their sin is not revealed” (Hodge, Systematic Theology, 1:643). As far as Satan in particular, he only makes reference to the fact that he is fallen without reference to when he fell or the nature of his fall. Hodge makes a great point about the pride of Satan, which is alluded to in 1 Timothy 3:6, “He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.” The connection is “the condemnation which the devil incurred for the same sin [i.e. pride].” Hodge then goes on to say, “Some have conjectured that Satan was moved to rebel against God and to seduce our race from its allegiance, by the desire to rule over our globe and the race of man. Of this, however, there is no intimation in Scripture. His first appearance in the sacred history is in the character of an apostate angel” (Hodge, Systematic Theology, 1:643). So what Hodge seems to be saying is that there are no passages that refer to Satan’s fall. When he comes onto the Biblical scene (in the garden) he is already a fallen angel.
Survey of Commentaries

Isaiah 14 and/or Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan:

I have a scant collection of commentaries on Isaiah and Ezekiel. But of those that I do have, not one concluded that these passages refer to Satan. However, I was able to track down a few which hold this view.
*W.A. Criswell, Ezekiel, 149.
* Lamar Cooper suggests that “the difficulty of the text makes it unwise to insist upon a particular interpretation, but the latter traditional view [that ‘the lament is an account of the fall of Satan not given in Scripture but alluded to elsewhere, especially in Isa 14:12-17’] appears to the present writer to account best for the language and logic of the passage” (Cooper, Ezekiel, NAC, 265).
*Charles Feinberg states, “But as [Ezekiel] viewed the thoughts and ways of [the King of Tyre], he clearly discerned behind him the motivating force and personality who was impelling him in his opposition to God. In short, he saw the work and activity of Satan, whom the king of Tyre was emulating in so many ways” (Feinberg, The Prophecy of Ezekiel, 161). This approach parallels Ryrie who views both the King of Tyre and Satan in view in the passage.
Isaiah 14 and/or Ezekiel 28 do not refer to Satan:

John Calvin (not surprisingly) is unequivocal in denying that Isaiah has anything whatsoever to do with Satan, “The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians” (Calvin, Commentaries, 7:442).
Edward J. Young, says that Isaiah 14 has the king of Babylon in view, no more (Young, The Book of Isaiah, 1:441). He contends that the phrase, “how are you fallen from heaven” “is to fall from great political height” (Young, The Book of Isaiah, 1:440).
Keil and Delitzsch say that applying the name Lucifer to Satan based on Isaiah 14:12 is “without any warrant whatever” (Keil and Delitzsch, Isaiah, 312). They contend that Ezekiel 28 is referring to the King of Tyre and no one else (Keil and Delitzsch, Ezekiel, 411).
Matthew Henry also sees Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 as applying to the historical kings mentioned in each passage (Matthew Henry, Commentary, 4:67 and 4:721).
*John D.W. Watts sees this as a poem as “a simile to picture the fall and disgrace of the tyrant” (Watts, Isaiah 1-33, WBC, 212). It is general in its scope and references neither the king of Babylon or Satan.
*John N. Oswalt concludes that this passage deals with human pride manifested by the king of Babylon (Oswalt, The Book of Isaiah 1-39, NICOT, 320).
*Jan Ridderbos straddles the fence saying, “there is an element of truth in the idea [that Lucifer is Satan]: by his self-deification Babylon’s king is the imitator of the devil and the type of the Antichrist (Daniel 11:36; 2 Thess 2:4); therefore his humiliation is also an example of Satan’s fall from the position of power that he has usurped (cf. Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:9) (Ridderbos, Isaiah, 142).
*Gray takes this portion to be based on a Babylonian genre of a mythical hero. Strange as the interpretation is he does not find Satan in Isaiah 14:12-14 (Gray, Isaiah, ICC, 1:256-7).
*Block contends that “Ezekiel’s prophecy is indeed couched in extravagant terms, but the primary referent within the context is clearly the human king of Tyre” (Daniel Block, The Book of Ezekiel, NICOT, 119).
*Leslie Allen says that the interpreter who applies “vv 11-19 to Satan” is “guilty of detaching the passage from its literary setting” (Allen, Ezekiel 20-48, WBC, 95).
Youngblood quips, “In this case, the devil is not in the details” (Ronald Youngblood, “The Fall of Lucifer,” in The Way of Wisdom: Essays in Honor of Bruce K. Waltke, eds. J.I. Packer and Sven Soderlund [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2000], 171).
Summary
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#52
a really, really, really non-literal paraphrase of the scriptures that one man wrote. it's the 'version of the Bible' that i was responding to in my post
I’ll have to look it up for the amusement
 

TheLearner

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#53
Both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are best interpreted in a grammatical-historical context. Moreover, the larger context in which the passages are found, namely oracles against other nations and kings, provides the reader an interpretive guide to view them in a historical light. Moreover, there is little problem ascribing the attitudes in each of the passages to ancient kings. Other biblical data corroborates this, e.g., Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4:30

The theologies seem to be divided: Chafer, Ryrie, Thiessen, Boice, and possibly Erickson affirm the position that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan. Strong and Hodge deny that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan. I gather that those who do not address the texts in their theologies don’t view these passages as allusions to Satan (Berkhof and Dabney), but I may be wrong.

As far as commentators, it seems that there is greater unanimity that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 do not apply to Satan (e.g., Calvin, Young, Keil and Delitzsch, and Henry). I discovered in my reading that church fathers and conservative Christians apply Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 to Satan, while the reformers generally did not. They interpreted these passages in their historical context. This is significant because commentators are immersed in the text, while theologians are not in the text per se.Do Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan?

As you can see there are Christian Teachers and More importantly Theologians on both sides. It appears some Commentators favor my viewpoint.
 

TheLearner

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#54
Was Satan's fall before creation or shortly there after?
How many years latter did Isaiah write?

When was this done?

Luke 10:18
And He said unto them, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

I think we can agree that Jesus witnessed it because he was there.
 

TheLearner

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#55
General Outline
THE ASSYRIAN PERIOD - CONFLICT AND VICTORY (Isa 1-39)
PROPHECIES CONCERNING JUDAH AND JERUSALEM (Isa 1-12)
PROPHECIES CONCERNING THE NATIONS (Isa 13-27)
DELIVERANCE FOUND NOT IN EGYPT, BUT IN THE LORD (Isa 28-35)
HISTORICAL INTERLUDE (Isa 36-39)
THE BABYLONIAN PERIOD - HOPE FOR TROUBLED TIMES (Isa 40-66)
THE ONE TRUE GOD VERSUS IDOLS (Isa 40-48)
THE LORD'S SERVANT WILL BRING SALVATION THROUGH VICARIOUS SUFFERING (Isa 49-57)
THE FUTURE GLORY FOR GOD'S PEOPLE, THE NEW ZION (Isa 58-66)
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#56
Either you are a very fast typer or do you have this stuff pre typed, I don’t care it’s all cool just wondering?
 

TheLearner

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#57
Ezekiel 28

1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: 2‘Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre: Thus saith the Lord GOD:
Because thy heart is lifted up,
And thou hast said: I am a god,
I sit in the seat of God,
In the heart of the seas;
Yet thou art man, and not God,
Though thou didst set thy heart as the heart of God—
3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that they can hide from thee!
4By thy wisdom and by thy discernment
Thou hast gotten thee riches,
And hast gotten gold and silver
Into thy treasures;
5In thy great wisdom by thy traffic
Hast thou increased thy riches,
And thy heart is lifted up because of thy riches—
6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD:
Because thou hast set thy heart
As the heart of God;
7Therefore, behold, I will bring strangers upon thee,
The terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom,
And they shall defile thy brightness.
8They shall bring thee down to the pit;
And thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain,
In the heart of the seas.
9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee:
I am God?
But thou art man, and not God,
In the hand of them that defile thee.
10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised
By the hand of strangers;
For I have spoken, saith the Lord GOD.’
11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: 12‘Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say unto him: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Thou seal most accurate, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty, 13thou wast in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the carnelian, the topaz, and the emerald, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the carbuncle, and the smaragd, and gold; the workmanship of thy settings and of thy sockets was in thee, in the day that thou wast created they were prepared. 14Thou wast the far-covering cherub; and I set thee, so that thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee. 16By the multitude of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned; therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17Thy heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness; I have cast thee to the ground, I have laid thee before kings, that they may gaze upon thee. 18By the multitude of thine iniquities, in the unrighteousness of thy traffic, thou hast profaned thy sanctuaries; therefore have I brought forth a fire from the midst of thee, it hath devoured thee, and I have turned thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19All they that know thee among the peoples shall be appalled at thee; thou art become a terror, and thou shalt never be any more.’

20And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: 21‘Son of man, set thy face toward Zidon, and prophesy against it, 22and say: Thus saith the Lord GOD:

Behold, I am against thee, O Zidon,
And I will be glorified in the midst of thee;
And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her.
23For I will send into her pestilence
And blood in her streets;
And the wounded shall fall in the midst of her By the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
24And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor a piercing thorn of any that are round about them, that did have them in disdain; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
25Thus saith the Lord GOD: When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the nations, then shall they dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. 26And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell safely; when I have executed judgments upon all those that have them in disdain round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.’

In context, the word Lucifer is not used. It uses the word for Venus.
The context clearly says the Prince of Tyre was Human.
The Angel in your proof text was destroyed and we know that Satan was not destroyed.

Nothing like holding to traditions of men.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#58
Was Satan's fall before creation or shortly there after?
How many years latter did Isaiah write?

When was this done?

Luke 10:18
And He said unto them, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

I think we can agree that Jesus witnessed it because he was there.
Thats a reference to how fast satans power fell very fast like lightning, when the disciples when out