Mary Mother of Jesus: Sinless?

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Was Mary the Mother of Jesus without sin?


  • Total voters
    40

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#81
In my country catholic pray to Mary. Ask Mary to bless them ask Mary to guide and

Say that Mary is the queen

https://totustuusbundamaria.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/doa-penyerahan-kepada-bunda-maria/

This is the link, It is in Indonesian but you welcome to use Google Translate in to english

Let me give you one sentence of this pray

Kuasailah hati kami,
I put in Google Translate mean dominate our heart.

But If you read the context It more like take over my heart

Like you surender to Mary to direct your live.

Like Christian asking Jesus to come to our heart, catholic do It to Mary aswell. This is big No No for protestant asking dead saint to take over our heart or surender under influent of dead saint

Catholic believe Mary able to hear billions catholic pray to Mary, God is omni present. But not Mary, how Mary able to hear billion people thausands different city in the same time?

In other word, catholic believe Mary have capacity as God.
I forget to Translate the title of this pray

The title is

DOA PENYERAHAN KEPADA BUNDA MARIA

Submission prayer TO mother mary

So the title admit this is prayer to. Mary, not asking Mary to pray but pray to
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#82
You have no idea what you're talking about, and your remarks have not a thing to do with me. Perhaps you will read members posts in full before resorting to your condemnation and slander of them in your ignorance.

Perhaps one day you will learn what grace means. God help you.
Yet another typical response from one who can't prove their erroneous position of a sinless Mary.

Jesus Christ was sinless, not Mary.

1 John 3:5
You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

Does the truth offend you?

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

That includes Mary.

1 John 1:8-10
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

That would include Mary if she said she was sinless, but she would never say she was sinless.

She rejoiced in God her Savior.

Jesus Christ is sinless, not Mary.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#83
I recently had a few cordial conversations with two men whom were Catholic. Of course the topic of Mary had come up. Their contention was Mary was without original sin and that’s why she was chosen as the vessel for the birth of Christ.

I had asked where in scripture this was ever alluded to and the response was the message Gabriel gave her. “Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee.” This comes from Luke 1:28. The claim that Mary was sinless is predicated from this passage. Mary had grace which made her sinless.

We decided to view that text in the original Koine Greek and the actual translation reads: “ Greetings you favored with grace the Lord is with you.” This would indicate that Mary was not full of grace but had grace upon her.

I also asked where else in scripture is Mary stated as being sinless? Of course scripture never states that. We ended our conversations on the premises that we would agree to disagree.

If anyone else has evidence that Mary was sinless, I would certainly be interested in hearing this and why.
Mary was not sinless, and the truth is all people are born innocent with no sin attached to them which the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones and we are not blamed for the sin of Adam and Eve for that is their sin, but we are born with a choice so we will do wrong before we come to God in the truth.

Mary called Jesus her Savior and Jesus said that anybody that does the will of God the same is His mother, brethren, and sisters, and said anybody that hears the word of God and does it the same is as blessed as Mary not exalting Mary above any person.

Mary was a sinner like everyone else and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

If they say Mary was sinless because Jesus was born from her then Mary's mother would have to be sinless and then her mother and so on.

Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

The truth is John the Baptist is the greatest person born even greater than Mary for he had the Spirit from the womb but not to save him but to give power to prepare the way for Jesus, but John was a sinner for all have sinned that has been born of father and mother.

Mary did not have the Spirit from the womb for John was the only one.

The RCC wants to exalt Mary as well as the Pope and have a female deity for their foundation is of the occult and pagan and interpret scriptures that way.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#84
Another reason why Catholics revere Mary and believe the things they do, is because when Mary appeared in these apparitions, she herself described herself as the Immaculate Conception, Queen of Heaven, etc. (She also spoke good things of her Son). Additionally, she said things like pray with the rosary, etc. So, she herself spoke/confirmed some the of the beliefs held by Catholics.

I think our minds are too finite to understand everything. I don't discount the people who saw the apparitions.
Budist pray with rosary too...what about them?
There is much to learn about Mary...she was an example to mother's and parents of raising up a child in the way they should go.
As a young Jewish woman she was an example of submitting to her husband.
Yet she sought to put her son away (Jesus) she thought him to be out of his mind. Like the rest of the early day followers they never heard the scriptures of the suffering Messiah so they did not understand Christ mission.
Mary was the fulfilment of gen 3:15 as God appointed the time for his son to enter the world as prophecy declared. Born of a virgin, in Bethlehem, out of Egypt. Right down to his name. So there would be no mistake on who he was.
Now her sister Elizabeth needs some recognition too after all she gave birth to a fulfillment also (John). He was the voice in the wilderness.
Scripture is pointing to a blood line here that was completed by God through the centuries. Another proof that points to Messiah.
Mary was a chosen vessel yes but sinless no . Special power and authority no. Able to answer prayer no.
Is she the queen of heaven no.
God did the work in all of this. It is his masterpiece, his glory, which he shares with no one and rightly so.
I hate the deception the Catholic Church intentionally teaches in order to control the masses. May God deal swiftly with that.
If you want to make this a Protestant/Catholic debate then you lost focus. If you want the truth then seek it and you will find.
The apparitions of Mary are demonic. To further mislead the sinless Mary mother of God people into a pit.
Why couldn't Mary change the wine at the wedding?
Why did she seek to put her own son away?
Why did she up hold the Jewish traditions if she was saved and knew better?
Why couldn't she stop the horrible death of her son?
The first of many lies of Satan is that :you shall not die if you eat of the fruit you will become as God's.
Don't you think that being sinless is as being God?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
986
113
#85
Mary was not sinless, and the truth is all people are born innocent with no sin attached to them which the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones and we are not blamed for the sin of Adam and Eve for that is their sin, but we are born with a choice so we will do wrong before we come to God in the truth.

Mary called Jesus her Savior and Jesus said that anybody that does the will of God the same is His mother, brethren, and sisters, and said anybody that hears the word of God and does it the same is as blessed as Mary not exalting Mary above any person.

Mary was a sinner like everyone else and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

If they say Mary was sinless because Jesus was born from her then Mary's mother would have to be sinless and then her mother and so on.

Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

The truth is John the Baptist is the greatest person born even greater than Mary for he had the Spirit from the womb but not to save him but to give power to prepare the way for Jesus, but John was a sinner for all have sinned that has been born of father and mother.

Mary did not have the Spirit from the womb for John was the only one.

The RCC wants to exalt Mary as well as the Pope and have a female deity for their foundation is of the occult and pagan and interpret scriptures that way.
Thanks for posting
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
986
113
#86
Well, something to ponder, when Jesus told the malefactor on the cross to day you shall be with me in paradise, would you consider that they where in paradise, or that they would be going to paradise that day.

And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. Luke 9:21-22

Would you consider the heart of the earth as paradise?

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 12:40
One would have to believe the thief was in Paradise. Speaking of the heart of Earth or Sheol is a spiritual state of being which is not of time and space. As 1 Peter 3:19 indicated “He spoke to the Spirits in prison”.

Trying to explain or truly understand this is impossible for us to do.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
740
128
43
#87
Not sure. But It say in the bible
So who do you believe the "we" that Jesus was referring unto in John 3:11?

Good question .. His and to His glory .. Who in their right mind could want any of that ? Satan ? Jim Jones ? Simon Magus ?
Care to answer what the Glory of God is?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#88
So who do you believe the "we" that Jesus was referring unto in John 3:11?



Care to answer what the Glory of God is?
John 3:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
I believe we refer to Jesus and His diciples
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#89
I'm not a Catholic but I think saying Catholics are not Christians is false/extreme. If you ask Catholics if Mary is God, I bet they would say no. If Mary is sinless because God made her sinless/protected her from sin, then she is not God. God is still in authority and He can do as He wishes. Mary is considered sinless by Catholics because Catholics hold Jesus is such a high regard, they do not believe He would be born from a woman in sin.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
740
128
43
#90
One would have to believe the thief was in Paradise. Speaking of the heart of Earth or Sheol is a spiritual state of being which is not of time and space. As 1 Peter 3:19 indicated “He spoke to the Spirits in prison”.

Trying to explain or truly understand this is impossible for us to do.
Well, the heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1 is the physical expanse of space which was created in the beginning of time.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
740
128
43
#91
John 3:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
I believe we refer to Jesus and His diciples
That means 'you' right? Hopefully it does anyway.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#92
Yet another typical response from one who can't prove their erroneous position of a sinless Mary.

Jesus Christ was sinless, not Mary.

1 John 3:5
You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

Does the truth offend you?

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

That includes Mary.

1 John 1:8-10
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

That would include Mary if she said she was sinless, but she would never say she was sinless.

She rejoiced in God her Savior.

Jesus Christ is sinless, not Mary.
You're absolutely right. Correct. You got it. :) We were just speaking of those who are unable to understand the word of God. Thank you for your contribution. Being there have been many scriptures that prove Mary was sinless, forgiven of her sins, when she was highly favored, the Greek meaning of favored includes grace, in her case, graced, or grace filled, by God prior to the task He set before her; to deliver the Messiah to the world as the son of man and the Son of God.

You are unable to comprehend that. And that is as God wills. And I can see why. You have no grace to exhibit even at a keyboard in a Christian community. Your hate does not disguise your lack.
God help you.
You shall continue in your vitriol and prove my words. While I shall never again read them. 2 Timothy 2:16
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#93
In my country catholic pray to Mary. Ask Mary to bless them ask Mary to guide and

Say that Mary is the queen

https://totustuusbundamaria.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/doa-penyerahan-kepada-bunda-maria/

This is the link, It is in Indonesian but you welcome to use Google Translate in to english

Let me give you one sentence of this pray

Kuasailah hati kami,
I put in Google Translate mean dominate our heart.

But If you read the context It more like take over my heart

Like you surender to Mary to direct your live.

Like Christian asking Jesus to come to our heart, catholic do It to Mary aswell. This is big No No for protestant asking dead saint to take over our heart or surender under influent of dead saint

Catholic believe Mary able to hear billions catholic pray to Mary, God is omni present. But not Mary, how Mary able to hear billion people thausands different city in the same time?

In other word, catholic believe Mary have capacity as God.
That may be the way it is where you're from. That is not what Catholics actually believe though.
https://dynamiccatholic.com/5-million-rosaries/what-catholics-believe-about-mary
 
Feb 1, 2020
6
0
1
#94
I recently had a few cordial conversations with two men whom were Catholic. Of course the topic of Mary had come up. Their contention was Mary was without original sin and that’s why she was chosen as the vessel for the birth of Christ.

I had asked where in scripture this was ever alluded to and the response was the message Gabriel gave her. “Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee.” This comes from Luke 1:28. The claim that Mary was sinless is predicated from this passage. Mary had grace which made her sinless.

We decided to view that text in the original Koine Greek and the actual translation reads: “ Greetings you favored with grace the Lord is with you.” This would indicate that Mary was not full of grace but had grace upon her.

I also asked where else in scripture is Mary stated as being sinless? Of course scripture never states that. We ended our conversations on the premises that we would agree to disagree.

If anyone else has evidence that Mary was sinless, I would certainly be interested in hearing this and why.
Immaculate conception, or conceived immaculate, refers to Marie conceiving Jesus without sin. There was no sin in conceiving Jesus, no sin passed on to Him. Marie was likely 12 years of age at the time, reaching the age of accountability and obeyed the Word. What set Marie apart, is that she conceived immaculate. Marie the mother of Jesus and Marie Magdalene are the first accounts of receiving and comprehending Grace as the influence of God to get past pride of achievement. Both are examples of the Bride of Christ. Marie the Mother of God is no longer a single woman but an innumerable company of believers without sin standing before the throne of God in heaven. Language remains misunderstood since the tower of babel (bable) until we are perfect in Love and God does not need our help with that, since we are not saved by our understanding of the Word. Lean not on your understanding but Trust in the Lord. Be not hearers of the Word only but doers of the Word. Faith that works by Love. Now that the sin of the world is washed away, we don't see this if we live by the sight of our eyes. Yet angels sing, The whole earth is filled with the Glory of the Lord, referring to His Resurrection. Trouble is, there has to be death before Resurrection, death to our selfish nature. The time has come that judgment must begin at the house of God. God will have a spotless bride, the same that can be said of Marie the Mother of Jesus and Marie Magdalene and of all the Saints who worship with the whole heart, In Spirit and in Truth. The Holy Spirit will not be divided. "We walk by Faith and not by sight. "By Grace you are saved through Faith." We have not already attained the Resurrection, or already saved as many suppose. For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Those who overcome the world will have part in the first resurrection. If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him. The rest of the dead are not raised until the thousand years are fulfilled. When Jesus began His ministry He said, Today and tomorrow I heal the sick and cast out devils, and the third day I shall be perfected.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
#95
So who do you believe the "we" that Jesus was referring unto in John 3:11?



Care to answer what the Glory of God is?
Glory is imo praise due and sole credit to God for being worthy of it, that is a stand alone white hot characteristic of God .. To know Him to follow Him .. Knowledge to acknowledge we can choose from our seat to cherish Him for who He as we recognize His glory .... It is what we were created for, to love, worship and give glory to God the more we search to know Him .. Action by faith guided by loving His Word to reach others while learning the mind of Jesus .. Even those forgotten in hell glorify God by revealing His wrath to them imo
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#96
I'm not a Catholic but I think saying Catholics are not Christians is false/extreme. If you ask Catholics if Mary is God, I bet they would say no. If Mary is sinless because God made her sinless/protected her from sin, then she is not God. God is still in authority and He can do as He wishes. Mary is considered sinless by Catholics because Catholics hold Jesus is such a high regard, they do not believe He would be born from a woman in sin.
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

All have sinned, where in the bible say Mary not sinner?
So catholic make they own bible.

Jesus was born in a manger

Manger is not for the King of King

Manger is for animal or very poor people

It not make Jesus animal or poor, He still King of King.

He was not live in the palace, or white house, He was living in poor house, not make Him poor, He till King oN king

He born from sinner Mary, not make Him sinner.

Catholic pray to Mary, invite Mary to come to their heart, believe Mary able to hear billions catholic from thausand city

Believe Mary is queen of heaven, No Christian believe Mary is queen of heaven
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
#97
Immaculate conception, or conceived immaculate, refers to Marie conceiving Jesus without sin. There was no sin in conceiving Jesus, no sin passed on to Him. Marie was likely 12 years of age at the time, reaching the age of accountability and obeyed the Word. What set Marie apart, is that she conceived immaculate. Marie the mother of Jesus and Marie Magdalene are the first accounts of receiving and comprehending Grace as the influence of God to get past pride of achievement. Both are examples of the Bride of Christ. Marie the Mother of God is no longer a single woman but an innumerable company of believers without sin standing before the throne of God in heaven. Language remains misunderstood since the tower of babel (bable) until we are perfect in Love and God does not need our help with that, since we are not saved by our understanding of the Word. Lean not on your understanding but Trust in the Lord. Be not hearers of the Word only but doers of the Word. Faith that works by Love. Now that the sin of the world is washed away, we don't see this if we live by the sight of our eyes. Yet angels sing, The whole earth is filled with the Glory of the Lord, referring to His Resurrection. Trouble is, there has to be death before Resurrection, death to our selfish nature. The time has come that judgment must begin at the house of God. God will have a spotless bride, the same that can be said of Marie the Mother of Jesus and Marie Magdalene and of all the Saints who worship with the whole heart, In Spirit and in Truth. The Holy Spirit will not be divided. "We walk by Faith and not by sight. "By Grace you are saved through Faith." We have not already attained the Resurrection, or already saved as many suppose. For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Those who overcome the world will have part in the first resurrection. If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him. The rest of the dead are not raised until the thousand years are fulfilled. When Jesus began His ministry He said, Today and tomorrow I heal the sick and cast out devils, and the third day I shall be perfected.
Mary only 12yrs old ? Prove it, She was young but not that young .... I have a 13 yr old granddaughter (Turned 13 this week actually), honor role, responsible but still might play with a toy, no way .. I have a 15.5 yr old granddaughter (her sister) who is much more physically and mentally able to cope with something like that .. Jesus was 12 when His mother and Joseph freaked out when they lost track of Him ..48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

Now Muhammad took Aisha when she was probably 7 or 8 , she took her dolls with her to play with.. Muhammad was a sexual pervert and Islam, other false religions might add their taqiyya fables to the Christian Gospel story to make their nonsense more credible
 
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UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
740
128
43
#98
Did all other babes leap in their mothers wombs like John did when she walked by or was it because Jesus was in her womb and so that John would recognize Jesus even from Elizabeths womb ?
If not mistaken, it was when Elizabeth heard the voice of Mary that the babe in her womb leaped.

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; Luke 1:41

For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Luke 1:44

nd #1 why isn't it emphasized somewhere in the Word that Mary was sinless ?
You might want to read what this poster wrote, he knows his scripture.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...r-of-jesus-sinless.189986/page-5#post-4152917

IMO
 

Timothy5378

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
180
29
28
#99
ONLY CHRIST IS GOD AND SINLESS....SO THEREFORE CATHOLICISM IS FALSE...FOR 3 MISTAKES IN THE BIBLE MARY DID...AND SHE HAD SONS AND DAUGHTERS
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
If not mistaken, it was when Elizabeth heard the voice of Mary that the babe in her womb leaped.

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; Luke 1:41

For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Luke 1:44



You might want to read what this poster wrote, he knows his scripture.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...r-of-jesus-sinless.189986/page-5#post-4152917

IMO
Yes it was but you got my point ..