Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
LOL

What should cease is the idea of sign gifts. Spiritual unseen gifts will never cease

But those who fall backward refuse to look to the foundation of the doctrine of Tongues as a sign against unbelief.. no prophecy.

They did not cease have we have all the prophecy as living words needed to preach the spirit life giving. . . gospel. The unseen eternal.

Something missing or cut off? Another sign that proves God is working? Or look for another circus seal.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

did you forget?

I don't respond to your silliness so even this post is not here

:coffee:
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
You are still stuck in a tiny little box, and you're unable to see anything outside of it.
Tiny little box that is where the limitless God who created the universe resides. Oh well reality is only for those who cannot deal with their fantasies.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,081
1,748
113
If even one miracle happened today like in Acts, it would be worldwide headline news. Instead we have embarrassment for anyone calling themselves a Christian coming from the ranks of the Charismatics.
It wouldn't if newscasters had your level of unbelief toward miracles and dismissed them out of hand. Even if they believed in them and their colleagues would laugh them to scorn and not allow them to be promoted, etc. for covering such stories.

If there were a real bigfoot or a Loch Ness monster, real news outlets wouldn't report that, either. Sadly, many unbelievers put miracles from God, including Biblical miracles, in the same category as bigfoot in their minds.

You are very naive about the quality of news media.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,081
1,748
113
Your accusations are without merit. I have not claimed superior knowledge to Paul or the other apostles. I do have a more complete written account of Gods revelation to man. Same Holy Spirit but no superior knowledge.
So in other words, you have an interpretation of I Corinthians 13 that does not really relate to what the words on the page actually say. That seems a little looser even than allegorical interpretation.

We are talking about this:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul writes about knowledge, not about a manuscript or book. If you don't believe he is talking about knowledge, then why have this conversation? You could also say the passage means not to eat chocolate while playing the piano. That has even less to do with what the words actually say.

The divine intersession of the Holy Spirit allowed Paul and the other apostles to minister with great authority until the NT was completed.

The Holy Spirit now ministers with great authority through the perfect revelation of God. Foolish men refuse to trust in it and go about to impose their will on the will of God.
This is your theory about... putting such limitations on how the Holy Spirit that the Bible does not. I don't consider your theories to be inspired, however. I choose to 'contend for the faith once delivered to the saints' instead.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
So in other words, you have an interpretation of I Corinthians 13 that does not really relate to what the words on the page actually say. That seems a little looser even than allegorical interpretation.

We are talking about this:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul writes about knowledge, not about a manuscript or book. If you don't believe he is talking about knowledge, then why have this conversation? You could also say the passage means not to eat chocolate while playing the piano. That has even less to do with what the words actually say.



This is your theory about... putting such limitations on how the Holy Spirit that the Bible does not. I don't consider your theories to be inspired, however. I choose to 'contend for the faith once delivered to the saints' instead.
You are imitating Adam Shiff.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
It wouldn't if newscasters had your level of unbelief toward miracles and dismissed them out of hand. Even if they believed in them and their colleagues would laugh them to scorn and not allow them to be promoted, etc. for covering such stories.

If there were a real bigfoot or a Loch Ness monster, real news outlets wouldn't report that, either. Sadly, many unbelievers put miracles from God, including Biblical miracles, in the same category as bigfoot in their minds.

You are very naive about the quality of news media.
If you had any of the gifts people would throng you from around the world just as they did Jesus.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Tongues not for all.png


The Holy Spirit in Acts
The Gift of the Holy Spirit given directly to all believers for all time

I. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit
A. Given directly to the Apostles
1. They spoke in tongues, prophesied and performed signs and wonders in Acts
a. Given to Philip by the Apostles.
(1) He worked signs and wonders
b. Given to the Samaritans by the Apostles
c. Given to the Ephesians by the Apostles
(1) They spoke in tongues and prophesied

B. Given directly to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house
1. They spoke in tongues and magnified God
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
such nonsense beliefs in here, we're concerned and need to go to prayer for those who think
and believe in their own way instead of Gods - seems as though they have strayed and thus behave
in an ungodly way...
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
such nonsense beliefs in here, we're concerned and need to go to prayer for those who think
instead of believe in their own way - seems as though they have strayed and thus behave
in an ungodly way...
If you don't have scripture to support your views, you cannot have faith. Faith comes from hearing the word. What you have is false doctrine which is sin. No matter the doctrine.
 

Timothy5378

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
180
29
28
If you don't know your Bible and believe in miricales you may not get them...for it takes faith in Christ...the gifts still exist and there is still the Baptism of the HS it just may not be visible all the time...and not all may get it like others....for if you are crazy and come up with cessationism...which makes no sense anyway....the way P/C does things may no be right either
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,081
1,748
113
If you don't have scripture to support your views, you cannot have faith. Faith comes from hearing the word. What you have is false doctrine which is sin. No matter the doctrine.
Scripture does not support your limitations on the Holy Spirit but rather disproves them.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,589
873
113
61
“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” Hebrews 2:3–4 (KJV 1900)

Notice the past tense of the Apostles. Also for the signs and wonders. also notice the contents of Acts about the ministry of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
The Holy Spirit in Acts

The Gift of the Holy Spirit given to all believers for all time

I. They don't speak in tongues

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit

I. Given to the Apostles

A. They spoke in tongues and performed signs and wonders

II. Given to the Samaritans by the Apostles

III. Given to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house

A. they spoke in tongues

IV. Given to the Ephesians by the Apostles

A. They spoke in tongues

V. Given to Philip by the Apostles. He worked signs and wonders
Hm, your points I till IV adresses 4 different groups. I the jews from acts 2, the Samaritians from acts 8, the gentiles in acts 10 and the disciples of John the baptist in acts 19. The events II - IV were reported for to show the jews that gentiles, Samaritians and disciples of John the baptist also got the Holy Spirit, like they do. Otherwise they would not hardly accept that Jesus came for all mankind and not only for them.
These events had nothing to do with what we read in 1.Cor. the gifts which are given there from the Holy Spirit were to build up the body of Christ, the church. The so called sign gifts, ( prophecie, healing and speaking in tongues)disapeared as gifts for build up the church. With the canon, prophecie which we know from the OT ore during the time of the apostles was not longer needet. So as we today no need an extra revelation out of what is written in the word of God. What we need are teachers, shepherds , and leader which are teaching and leading according of the word of God.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit which is taught from the pentecostal and charismatic movements has nothing to do with with what we find in acts.
And at this point we will find no unity with our pentecostal/ charismatic brothers and sisters.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,589
873
113
61
“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” Hebrews 2:3–4 (KJV 1900)

Notice the past tense of the Apostles. Also for the signs and wonders. also notice the contents of Acts about the ministry of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
The Holy Spirit in Acts

The Gift of the Holy Spirit given to all believers for all time

I. They don't speak in tongues

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit

I. Given to the Apostles

A. They spoke in tongues and performed signs and wonders

II. Given to the Samaritans by the Apostles

III. Given to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house

A. they spoke in tongues

IV. Given to the Ephesians by the Apostles

A. They spoke in tongues

V. Given to Philip by the Apostles. He worked signs and wonders[/QUOTE

I forgot, in missionministrie of course we find extraordinate gifts, according the Lord is giving for to proof that he is God and more powerful then Satan and his demons.
But this has nothing to do with the normal churchlive. In the church God should not must proof that he is God.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,696
113
This has generated lots of interest so I am posting my understanding of the issue. (I used to be Pentecostal).

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today
Poor brother Dave. I have never seen so many red marks on one man before.

Sometimes things just turn to :poop: on ya.:confused:

The Comforted is come, my much beloved brother, and is available to whosoever will... PTL!
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
So are cessasonist saying God is changeable and His word is limited that the Holy Spirit is not still the same today? Is that the jist of what is being said?


I would challenge any here to begin seeking God in earnest for the same baptism of the Holy Spirit that came in acts after Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,696
113
Never put cramps or clamps on the Holy Spirit.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 

Timothy5378

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
180
29
28
Why can't people leave the Bible alone...if you take lots of words that are not in the Bible to explain things in the Bible it tends to get into what just is not there....if you just read the NT you would think apostles and prophets are still around in few in number...but to say the two top offices do not exist you would never get that out of the Bible...i got hit by the HS in the chest like a ball of flame on a sofa 25 years ago after I promised to learn the whole Bible...now 25 years later ..the HS comes over others and confirms to them I do know the whole Bible easily...but if people want to argue over things instead of living the NT...they may just not get much...we need to get to others...Bishop is not used by some denominations now...but it's a Bible Word too and position...maybe we have an apostle today that appoints Bishops that appoint elders and deacons....and pastor and teacher is below evangelist...but we need all working right...how we ever let the Devil trick us out of these positions is mind blowing for God never said they would stop and he didn't give them to P/C to swing from the ceiling with it and misusing younger etc...

It's important to note the NT works...i know it does...i had read it long and hard before I met a church that told me oh no...God does not speak today lmao...He does...thru His Word and thru Him as He sees fit...but to teach He can't communicate now because the Bible is complete...the Bible never says that...it takes a real different stretch to say the Bible nullifies God like that...but P/C are crazy too...its neither like so many other things we are discussing the Bible has things that almost none see for they don't want to see and do and give
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
The word of God is not being inspired to be written on a continuum today but by no means is it finished!
There are prophesies to be fulfilled still and events still to come.
It is not a closed book but the living word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit!
 

Timothy5378

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
180
29
28
The whole Bible is understandable now...there is nothing hid